Spring feed

sbisme · Oct 20, 2014

Hi All

I know some will be saying spring feed already but as a beginner I have just about done all I can to help them through the winter, ( well I think I have) The colony is one that I hived from a Nuc mid July.

I have weighed all the individual parts of my spare hive so I know what weight the hive and parts are give or take a few pounds and I have started weighing weekly and plotting the progress so my question is what would you consider a min weight before I need to consider feeding in the spring or earlier if need be, I obviously don't want to over feed so trying to gauge at what point I need to intervene, I will be treating with OA late December and will drop some fondant on as a treat.
Thanks in advance

Pete D · Oct 20, 2014

Hi Shaun,
loads of answers to this no doubt, probably loads of questions too.
A lot will depend on the weather but if you are weighing weekly you will easily spot when things are getting light.
I wouldnt consider any feeding untill the available stores is under 5 kilo, but this would depend when this is.
I say available as it might be set solid (Ivy) or too far away from the cluster. In both cases if the weather is too cold and the bees wont come out for water or move within the hive they can still starve. Some top insulation may help with the later.
The under 5kg bit would be an issue at Christmas maybe but not mid March or there again it could be. If it was under at Christmas I would be giving them a bag of fondant and when it was gone, probably another.
Mid March you need enough stores for a growing population and the space for the queen to lay. Its at this stage that the hive is treading a fine line. Too much food and the queen cant lay and you may get sugar in your honey supers when you add them, too little and the queen may slow her laying and the bees may even starve.
Its all about individual hives and weather really. If the hive has 5 kg of available stores it will be ok through to the next weekly weigh.
Spring is a long way off yet so I would judge opinion nearer the time when we have had winter. A lot of Ivy has gone into the hives locally so a bag of fondant will be a good idea as would possibly a water feeder.
Good luck, well fed, warm and dry is always a good start.

sbisme · Oct 20, 2014

Thanks for the reply Pete D I will keep weighing and keep an eye in the weather etc, no doubt I will be asking more on this thread as the spring approaches.

Gilberdyke John · Oct 20, 2014

sbisme said:
Hi All

I know some will be saying spring feed already but as a beginner I have just about done all I can to help them through the winter, ( well I think I have) The colony is one that I hived from a Nuc mid July.

I have weighed all the individual parts of my spare hive so I know what weight the hive and parts are give or take a few pounds and I have started weighing weekly and plotting the progress so my question is what would you consider a min weight before I need to consider feeding in the spring or earlier if need be, I obviously don't want to over feed so trying to gauge at what point I need to intervene, I will be treating with OA late December and will drop some fondant on as a treat.
Thanks in advance

Perhaps "some" might say that but ask yourself why you would feed a thin (spring) syrup at this time of year when the bees need to lay down winter stores and having to evaporate all that excess water means far more work.
If your bees have access to ivy or other late forage they may not need winter top up at all although I give mine THICK Thymolised syrup to get a bit of Thymol into the hive to combat Nosema. I use rapid feeders and feed until the bees stop taking the syrup down. The bees know when the comb is full.

sbisme · Oct 20, 2014

My concern is not the concentrate of syrup, as they are still piling in pollen and nectar which I suspect is Ivy, so I am not feeding currently. The weight is currently 20kg of stores which has risen by 1 kg this week, I was just trying to gauge when I should if at all look to feed as spring arrives, thanks

Easy Beesy · Oct 23, 2014

Interesting to hear fondant described as 'treat'. Why would a lump of boiled sugar, devoid of nutrients, refined and processed, be seen by the bees as a treat? Use it as a poor substitute, desperate measures or starvation emergency rations, maybe.

sbisme · Oct 23, 2014

Loose term "Treat" that's why I am weighing weekly and will only add IF required to stop starvation, sorry to miss lead when I said I would drop some fondant on after the OA, hence my question asking what weight would you expect to start feeding etc in spring.

Dishmop · Oct 24, 2014

hence my question asking what weight would you expect to start feeding etc in spring.

In the spring me bees go out and find their own food..................even f they still have some left over from the previous year.

Barbarian · Oct 24, 2014

I would not give the hive fondant after the OA treatment. The fondant may act as a stimulant to brood production. The production of more brood early in the year could eat into the remaining stores in the hive. Once you start supplementary feeding early in the year, you usually have to continue supply feeding until the spring flows start.

Once you have prepared your hive for winter, it shouldn't need to be given additional winter/spring feeding. Some strains of bees don't know when to slow down for winter and need additional feeding later. As a new beekeeper with one hive you will feed to ensure survival. If you need to give additional feed then I would suggest you make plans to replace the strain of bees you have.

I have several hives. If I get one that hefts light, then I decide what to do. If I don't need the hive then I leave it to starve or not. If I need the hive then I will minimal feed and plan to re-queen from another hive that has survived better. Winter survival is one of the traits I want in the strain of bees I keep.

Hivemaker. · Oct 24, 2014

Barbarian said:
If I don't need the hive then I leave it to starve or not.

Would never leave any animals in my care to starve to death on purpose, just because i did not need them.

Erichalfbee · Oct 24, 2014

Barbarian said:
If I don't need the hive then I leave it to starve or not.

You have an apt forum name,then

Pete D · Oct 24, 2014

Barbarian said:
I would not give the hive fondant after the OA treatment. The fondant may act as a stimulant to brood production. The production of more brood early in the year could eat into the remaining stores in the hive. Once you start supplementary feeding early in the year, you usually have to continue supply feeding until the spring flows start.

I have several hives. If I get one that hefts light, then I decide what to do. If I don't need the hive then I leave it to starve or not. If I need the hive then I will minimal feed and plan to re-queen from another hive that has survived better. Winter survival is one of the traits I want in the strain of bees I keep.

I guess we all keep bees differently. I personally like them building up early as the OSR gets earlier every year and its our main crop in these parts. For me more numbers of bees means more yield and sometimes a prolific queen and colony cant stuff enough food into a brood box to last the winter months whilst brooding if the weather is mild and the numbers of bees are high.
Yes they consume more stores but they also pack it in when the early flow starts. My first harvest this year was Easter Sunday (20th April) from hives that had plenty of bees that were probably eggs mid February.
I would not let any bees die out needlessly. I would kill a queen and unite the work force before it came to that. This could be as simple as tip them out on a warm spring day in front of other hives.
Letting them starve and then be robbed of anything left is not in my good husbandry booklet.
Anyway each to their own and good luck with your prefered method of honey bee husbandry / improvement.

derekm · Oct 24, 2014

Pete D said:
I guess we all keep bees differently. I personally like them building up early as the OSR gets earlier every year and its our main crop in these parts. For me more numbers of bees means more yield and sometimes a prolific queen and colony cant stuff enough food into a brood box to last the winter months whilst brooding if the weather is mild and the numbers of bees are high.
Yes they consume more stores but they also pack it in when the early flow starts. My first harvest this year was Easter Sunday (20th April) from hives that had plenty of bees that were probably eggs mid February.
I would not let any bees die out needlessly. I would kill a queen and unite the work force before it came to that. This could be as simple as tip them out on a warm spring day in front of other hives.
Letting them starve and then be robbed of anything left is not in my good husbandry booklet.
Anyway each to their own and good luck with your prefered method of honey bee husbandry / improvement.

A perhaps stupid question... why dont you give them more space for stores from the autumn?

Arfermo · Oct 24, 2014

Barbarian said:
I would not give the hive fondant after the OA treatment. The fondant may act as a stimulant to brood production. The production of more brood early in the year could eat into the remaining stores in the hive. Once you start supplementary feeding early in the year, you usually have to continue supply feeding until the spring flows start. QUOTE]

Since OA is done so early in year and perhaps in some cases at the end of Dec when the brood situation is NIL or virtually non existent, not giving a slab of fondant on the top of the frames is complete iggerant tosh. Ignore - it is common practice - even if Barbarian disagrees and is happy to kill his bees by starvation too. With so many hives that he can be so intolerant and lacking in bee husbandry skills is to be deplored.

jenkinsbrynmair · Oct 24, 2014

Erichalfbee said:
You have an apt forum name,then

Arfermo said:
Barbarian said:

Since OA is done so early in year and perhaps in some cases at the end of Dec when the brood situation is NIL or virtually non existent, not giving a slab of fondant on the top of the frames is complete iggerant tosh. Ignore - it is common practice - even if Barbarian disagrees and is happy to kill his bees by starvation too. With so many hives that he can be so intolerant and lacking in bee husbandry skills is to be deplored.

Click to expand...

midnight sun · Oct 24, 2014

Easy Beesy said:
Interesting to hear fondant described as 'treat'. Why would a lump of boiled sugar, devoid of nutrients, refined and processed, be seen by the bees as a treat? Use it as a poor substitute, desperate measures or starvation emergency rations, maybe.

Ah! You have used the word 'treat' in inverted comma's and may summon an evil spirit. Think yourself lucky you didn't mean the other type of 'treat'....
Oh no! what have I done! :reddevil:

midnight sun · Oct 24, 2014

Barbarian said:
If I get one that hefts light, then I decide what to do. If I don't need the hive then I leave it to starve or not. If I need the hive then I will minimal feed and plan to re-queen from another hive that has survived better. Winter survival is one of the traits I want in the strain of bees I keep.

What! No wonder your avatar name is barbarian!

REDWOOD · Oct 24, 2014

quick enough to take their honey !!!

Pete D · Oct 24, 2014

derekm said:
A perhaps stupid question... why dont you give them more space for stores from the autumn?

Hi Derek

14x12 or double std nationals are what I am using to overwinter which is normally ok.
I was offering advice not necessarily saying what I do.

I Changed from single std broods after my first winter.

Cheers

BeeJayBee · Oct 24, 2014

sbisme said:
I will be treating with OA late December and will drop some fondant on as a treat.

Don't feel as if you've been told off, but giving food from late December through to early spring might not be a treat

it might be essential to survival because stores can often run very low towards the end of winter and be critically low if spring is late.

Barbarian said:
The fondant may act as a stimulant to brood production.

It's unlikely that fondant alone would act as a stimulant to brood production, which is why those preparing their colonies for early-flowering OSR will feed a mixture containing pollen or pollen substitute, more especially if the local flora are late.

a lump of boiled sugar, devoid of nutrients

Sugars are what bees eat to survive!

Spring feed

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