Captured swarm now bearding outside new Nuc

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BP123

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Hi everyone.

So I caught a swarm on Thursday and introduced it to a new 6 frame nuc box on Friday (around 5pm) evening using the bedsheet and ramp method. I watched to confirm some of the bees were entering the potential new home and left them too it. When I checked later (around 10PM) I found that most of the bees had settled (bearding?) outside the nuc.

It's now Sunday and no change so I'm worried about whether they are going to survive? I'd really appreciate any advice or guidance on what to do here - should I take action or just leave them be. It's also drizzling this morning but I see a few bees coming and going so could they be preparing to swarm again?

Best,
P.
 
How big a swarm was it? Can they all fit in?
 
It's a fair size swarm, the guy that helped me catch it said probably around 15-20,000 bees. I think they would fit (it is a 6 frame nuc after all) but maybe they think different. I just took a peek and there are a few bees clustered just inside the entrance and the rest is empty.

So assuming it isn't big enough I guess it would be a case of catching an re-homing again?
 
Did you see the queen go into the Nuc ? Sounds to me like they may be queenless ... What have you got in the way of frames inside the hive ?
 
@pargyle - no, not definitively and it has crossed my mind that they may now be queenless also. I have 6 frames with foundation in the nuc but none are drawn.

I do have two other hives in my garden (one of which produced this swarm) but I am reluctant to open these as they have new queens (I hope) in them. Open to all options at this stage though.
 
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Give more space to swarm.

.

I agree. I took this swarm last year and it more than filled a 10 frame Langstroth deep. after a couple of weeks I had to give it a second box
 

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Give a brood frame to the swarm. If it makes emergency cells, join it to another hive.
 
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Give a brood frame to the swarm. If it makes emergency cells, join it to another hive.

Yep - spot on Finnie .. beat me to it ... you will know for sure then whether it is queenless and can make decisions accordingly, at present you don't know. Only other thing is, if they really are such a big swarm that the box won't contain them, put them in a bigger box but dummy it down to a size you think they will be happy with. It did not sound too big a swarm to me for a Nuc to start with however - particularly as they have stayed here for a few days ... if they didn't like the size they would be off by now I would have thought.
 
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OK, bigger box it is then - I best get on the phone to see if I can source one!

The brood frame is also a good idea Finman, and may encourage them to populate the new box also.

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions :)
 
OK, bigger box it is then - I best get on the phone to see if I can source one!

The brood frame is also a good idea Finman, and may encourage them to populate the new box also.

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions :)

Any box will do if you are desperate ... a hive knocked up from one or two of the many correx signs sited by election candidates with duct tape to hold it together would tide you over until you could get another 'proper' box. Not ideal but any port in a storm !
 
... introduced it to a new 6 frame nuc box on Friday (around 5pm) evening using the bedsheet and ramp method. I watched to confirm some of the bees were entering the potential new home and left them too it. When I checked later (around 10PM) I found that most of the bees had settled (bearding?) outside the nuc.

It's now Sunday and no change ...
It's a fair size swarm, the guy that helped me catch it said probably around 15-20,000 bees.
... there are a few bees clustered just inside the entrance and the rest is empty.

They haven't gone in.
It isn't that the space is too small and they are overflowing.
They never went in.


So ... why?

1/ Is the entrance disc pinned fully open?
The central screw is simply not enough to prevent the disc rotating under the weight of a beard of bees.

2/ "Walking the bees in" is for spectators benefit. Do it differently, to benefit you and the bees.
Set the entrance to the Queen Excluder setting. And pin it securely - map pin or nail, not a drawing pin.
Dump the bees inside.
Add frames gently and allow them to sink gently between the bees - don't push them down!
Fit cover and roof.
And I'd leave them like that until dark and all the scouts and stragglers have joined and gone inside.
Close and pin the entrance for the journey home.
Once home, repin it at the QX position.
Leave for a couple of days before feeding and opening the entrance properly. Again pin it so it stays where you set it.

3/ Give them an old frame, not all foundation. Bees love "second hand" not new. And your nuc is new.
I have 6 frames with foundation in the nuc but none are drawn.

4/ I'd bet that it was from one of your own hives
I do have two other hives in my garden (one of which produced this swarm) but I am reluctant to open these as they have new queens (I hope) in them.
The rest of that story might well help to explain the origin of the swarm.

5/ Swarms don't start out Queenless.
If Q ain't there, they just return to their hive. (As we know, this is the justification for Q clipping.)
They may get Q- as a result of beekeeper misadventure, but it sounds like this swarm was in or around your own apiary.
If you didn't catch Q, they'd have leapt straight back up into the tree where Q was last seen/smelled.

6/ I reckon they either cannot get in or Q is under the nuc.
I'd probably try and shake/brush them off the outside of the nuc into a cardboard box, and then tip them into the nuc (as above, then add frames).
The one thing you need to ensure is that Q is NOT left on the outside of the nuc. Check the ground beneath the nuc ...
It ain't about finding her, it is about ensuring that she ISN'T in the wrong place.
Depending on your weather, I might water mist the cluster to prevent too many flying off.
The cardboard box needs to be taped internally so that there are no 'flaps' that bees can hide under and resist being dumped into the nuc.
And I'd feed them this afternoon as it is a few days since they swarmed.
With Q inside, and the entrance pinned at QX, there would be no risk of absconding.
I'd move the nuc just far enough so it isn't covering the same patch of ground.
Then watch to see whether the flyers Nasonov at the nuc entrance or at the patch of ground next door. They'll tell you where THEY think Q is. If she's outside, repeat the exercise until successful.
 
Great reply itma but there's a bit of a clue there ...

"few bees clustered just inside the entrance and the rest is empty" .. So they COULD actually get in ... but the rest of your post is highly relevant.
 
Great reply itma but there's a bit of a clue there ...

"few bees clustered just inside the entrance and the rest is empty" .. So they COULD actually get in ... but the rest of your post is highly relevant.

Some bees will get in - but not the majority - if as I suspect the disc might have slipped to the QX position.
Or she's underneath.

/// Late PS
- and another possibility - some bees could have gone in BEFORE the entrance disc slipped to fully closed (its most natural rest position, heaviest quadrant downwards).

I note that someone suggested a brood frame.
That would be even better than an old frame as a lure to get them to go in -- if the entrance is open to Q, but, as I fear possible over this timescale, it might not work too well if they have started building comb outside and the mated (not virgin) Q has started laying in it ...
 
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Dump the bees inside.
:iagree:

No point in leaving them outside, whatever the reason they've chosen to sit there.

Once inside check the entrance etc.
 
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A swarm (regardless of size) is looking for 40 Litre and entrance less than 20 sq Cm. Keep them in 40L until they put down roots (brood) Otherwise they may go into/ stay in bivovac mode and start looking for a new home. they may put up with a nuc if there is nothing better they can find...
 
Not read the thread fully, but has anyone yet suggested that queenie may be under the nuc? Look for comb under there?
 
I once had a swarm that came out and bearded on the front, it took 3 attempts over three days of kept putting them back in, until they stayed put, one way is to put a frame of brood in with them
 
A swarm (regardless of size) is looking for 40 Litre and entrance less than 20 sq Cm. Keep them in 40L until they put down roots (brood) Otherwise they may go into/ stay in bivovac mode and start looking for a new home. they may put up with a nuc if there is nothing better they can find...

:iagree:

I also just dump them in a brood box and put frames in afterwards.
You occasionally get swarms absconding even with a full brood box - Wally Shaw has a good wheeze which (he reckons) reduces the chances of absconding especially if it's a big swarm - he dumps the swarm in an empty brood box, puts another box on top full of frames and foundation, leaves it overnight and the next day the bees are on the frames and you can remove the bottom box.
 

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