My first Artificial Swarm

I checked the bees a week ago, and found empty cups in one of the hives. Then I went away on business, and got back yesterday afternoon. Too cold and too tired to check them. This morning, I looked out and there was a swarm under a seat in the garden. So popped them into a nuc, and checked my bees which had the empty queen cups. Lots of bees, and I found the queen in there. So I assume the swarm came from elsewhere.

Whilst I was in, I did an AS. My first. Found and captured the queen, placing her in a cage in the front entrance. Shook the bees from the frames into a tub of icing sugar. Moved 11 frames to the back of the hive, added in a divider, and put the remaining 3 at the front. Added 6 new frames of foundation between the divider and the 3 frames at the front. By this time, there was a nice mass of bees at the front of the hive. Poured the bees left in the icing sugar into the rear 11 frames, opened up the rear entrance, put on the super and closed that up. Added new super frames into the super at the front, on top of the new frames. Released the original and very prolific queen into the 3 frames at the front of the hive, then closed up.

Now leaving them all to settle down again.

The bees in the rear should make a new queen cell, hatch it and create a new queen. Then, I combine the 2 colonies back to one, selecting either the old queen or the new one.

All very exciting.

Still got to figure out what to do with the new swarm though as I dont have room for more hives.

What sort of hive have you got because your AS is like none I have heard of before? Why icing sugar?

La Folie said:

What sort of hive have you got because your AS is like none I have heard of before? Why icing sugar?

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Sounds like a Beehause or similar. Not sure how successful AF/shook swarm will be?

Russel said:

Sounds like a Beehause or similar. Not sure how successful AF/shook swarm will be?

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As far as I understood, her own hive was noy going to swarm.

.so, operation only slows down the build up. The emergency queen will be poor quality. All emergency queens are reared from 3 days old larva and poorly fed.

Sory to say that, that is how it goes.

Moved 11 frames to the back of the hive, added in a divider, and put the remaining 3 at the front. Added 6 new frames of foundation between the divider and the 3 frames at the front.

Obviously not a standard hive type like national or langstroth . Maybe the Dartington ?
Anyway can't see the point in artificial swarm control when they ain't preparing. Agree with Finman only gonaa slow the build up. Let them build up to Swarming strength then act.

I have Dartingtons. The equivalent of sticking 2 14x12 brood chambers together side-by-side. So instead of the AS going into another hive, it can go in the back, separated from the original colony at the front. Then combine both back together.

Forgot to add, I found a charged QC in the hive when I looked today, hence the AS.

Have now checked the other 2 hives, and the queens are both there. No QCs in there. So assume that the swarm was from elsewhere.

When I went to check on the swarm, the nuc was more or less empty with only 10 or so bees in there. No sign of the swarm. I was in the garden most of the day, but didn't see them escape!

Congratulations on collecting your first swarm. Pity they absconded. Nuc box is always too small for a prime, that's probably why they went.

Helen said:

When I went to check on the swarm, the nuc was more or less empty with only 10 or so bees in there. No sign of the swarm. I was in the garden most of the day, but didn't see them escape!

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Occassionally a swarm can lose its queen (she may have been clipped and fallen to the ground). They usually return to the hive they came from and come out with a virgin

Helen said:

I have Dartingtons. The equivalent of sticking 2 14x12 brood chambers together side-by-side. So instead of the AS going into another hive, it can go in the back, separated from the original colony at the front. Then combine both back together.

Forgot to add, I found a charged QC in the hive when I looked today, hence the AS.

Have now checked the other 2 hives, and the queens are both there. No QCs in there. So assume that the swarm was from elsewhere.

When I went to check on the swarm, the nuc was more or less empty with only 10 or so bees in there. No sign of the swarm. I was in the garden most of the day, but didn't see them escape!

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I wouldn't be prompted to artificial swarm on the presence of one queen cell normally Swarming is accompanied by numerous cells. I sometimes shake through and destroy cells the first time and take a nuc to weaken and delay Swarming . Then take a shook swarm with old queen and hive up on a new site. As per R.O.B. Manley describes.

As the swarm was at ground level, on the underneath of a garden seat, I dropped the whole lot right into the nuc. It is a 14x12 nuc so a little bigger than a normal one. I put the lid on, and set the entrance to 'queen excluder', allowing bees to come and go, but trapping the queen. I checked around for any sign of a queen around the seat and on the ground, but I didn't see any huddle of bees or queen. I did think she was in the nuc.

Given the bees went, I must have either missed the queen (possible but I dont think so if she was there) or they were queenless and returned to their home.

Wish we could track them to find out for sure....

So my first AS was going well. The bees had settled into each side of the Dartington (separated by a bee-proof board). One side with the original queen, a frame of brood and new foundation frames to keep them occupied. The other side had most of the original bees, stores and brood and the queen cells.

Both sides settled down to their work when I checked them a few days later.

Went into the hive yesterday, and I am pretty sure I found the original queen dead on the mesh. She was at least 3 years old.

There are 2 queen cells in the other half. Yesterday, one was empty with a 'hinged hatch' at the bottom. The other was intact with bees clustering around it. No sign of a young queen in the hive, but would be very difficult to spot anyway I think.

So, what to do now? I was going to re-unite both sides back together and use the new queen to re-queen another colony. Do I reunite both sides now (newspaper method) or do I wait until the new queen is laying, then recombine? Would there be danger to the new queen from the other bees if I combined early, or later?

Given that the 2nd queen cell has not been damaged by the first queen and it is still viable, could I put a cage on it to save the second queen for the other colony? Or should I remove it now and transplant into the other hive? This 2nd queen cell looks much bigger than the first one which seems to have hatched. Could be a better queen? The queen cell is on the side of a frame so could be awkward to cage.

Advice definitely welcome.

Helen said:

So my first AS was going well. The bees had settled into each side of the Dartington (separated by a bee-proof board). One side with the original queen, a frame of brood and new foundation frames to keep them occupied. The other side had most of the original bees, stores and brood and the queen cells.

Both sides settled down to their work when I checked them a few days later.

Went into the hive yesterday, and I am pretty sure I found the original queen dead on the mesh. She was at least 3 years old.

There are 2 queen cells in the other half. Yesterday, one was empty with a 'hinged hatch' at the bottom. The other was intact with bees clustering around it. No sign of a young queen in the hive, but would be very difficult to spot anyway I think.

So, what to do now? I was going to re-unite both sides back together and use the new queen to re-queen another colony. Do I reunite both sides now (newspaper method) or do I wait until the new queen is laying, then recombine? Would there be danger to the new queen from the other bees if I combined early, or later?

Given that the 2nd queen cell has not been damaged by the first queen and it is still viable, could I put a cage on it to save the second queen for the other colony? Or should I remove it now and transplant into the other hive? This 2nd queen cell looks much bigger than the first one which seems to have hatched. Could be a better queen? The queen cell is on the side of a frame so could be awkward to cage.

Advice definitely welcome.

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The bees clustering around the second queen cell are preserving that - they will do this in order to keep a second queen alive until the virgin gets mated and they decide she is viable .. you really should not interfere with that situation. .

However, did you see any eggs in the other half of the hive ? If you did and the queen is definitely dead then they will be raising a new queen .. if there are no eggs and the queen has been dead for more than a few days then they will have difficulty raising a queen. I'm a bit surprised that they had not started already if the queen is dead.

For safety and insurance you could take the frame with the charged queen cell out of the Dartington and put it into a Nuc with the bees on it ... is there any capped brood in either side ? If so, put a frame of brood and a frame of stores in the Nuc and dummy it down to three frames - this will get a Nuc started and you have some insurance in case the queen in the other half is dead. You can combine later once you are sure ...

Not ideal but best of a bad job. I run a Long deep hive and whilst there is much talk about splitting the hive horizontally I think it is a much overrated idea ... I would always prefer to split to a new hive if that is what you wanted to achieve - although in your original circumstances with only one queen cell I would have been thinking supercedure rather than swam .. bit late to worry about that now as you are into damage limitation - but a lesson for the future perhaps. We all get it wrong sometimes - me more than most I fear !

Thanks. I think the queen died very recently. I noticed her as bees were still drawn to her. I move her to the top of a frame, and nearby bees immediately moved towards her. So maybe no time for them to start creating new queen cells.

I'll move the 2nd queen cell into a Nuc once it stops raining. I did think that they were protecting it from the 1st queen as insurance.

As a previous poster has already mentioned, with just the one queen cell found it was more than likely supersedure that was taking place and not swarming preps, especially as the queen was 3 years old and later found dead.

Just took a look inside, and I heard a queen bee! I've never heard that before! I first thought it was a caught bee, but checking online, it was just like recordings. A bit of a high-pitched buzz, then 3 or 4 'pips'.

I recognised it because I had listened to Radio 4 this morning and they had a little piece about sounds from beehives. You can go here to hear it; go to 54 minutes, 17 seconds to listen to it.

The 2nd queen cell was still intact and surrounded by bees.

The first queen cell had gone, so assume bees had torn it down.

Moved the intact queen cell into a Nuc for the time being as a spare. I could still hear the new queen in the hive, so didnt transfer her as well (hopefully!).

Helen said:

Just took a look inside, and I heard a queen bee! I've never heard that before! I first thought it was a caught bee, but checking online, it was just like recordings. A bit of a high-pitched buzz, then 3 or 4 'pips'.

I recognised it because I had listened to Radio 4 this morning and they had a little piece about sounds from beehives. You can go here to hear it; go to 54 minutes, 17 seconds to listen to it.

The 2nd queen cell was still intact and surrounded by bees.

The first queen cell had gone, so assume bees had torn it down.

Moved the intact queen cell into a Nuc for the time being as a spare. I could still hear the new queen in the hive, so didnt transfer her as well (hopefully!).

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Best start hoping for some good weather so that your two virgins will be able to get out on the razz !! Sounds like you are a bit happier now ... good luck !

Well, all 3 colonies charge out during the breaks in the rain. Just in the middle of a thunderstorm and huge downpour right now, so bees and I am inside in the dry.