The importance of being stung.

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Why not ask him as he posts on here occasionally. Mike Palmer has a lot of vids and a lot of them make very good sense.
 
kazmcc said:
Is he talking twaddle or does he have a case?
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There may be something in it, but probably not the whole story. There's an Horizon episode this week about allergies, should be on iplayer for a few weeks. There's a lot emerging about the process and why western lifestyles have such a high proportion of allergic reactions. The basic idea is emerging (I'm paraphrasing) that your immune system needs to be "trained" to recognise friendly bacteria. By extension that should apply to other allergenic material too. An outdoor lifestyle provides a greater variety of stimulus than trying to disinfect everything. Excluding the variety makes anything novel a greater shock because of the limited previous experience. Antibiotics can also really screw up your bacterial balance. My take on it is that the best way to protect yourself and family is doing a bit of gardening, beekeeping and other outdoor stuff, don't confine your diet to highly processed foods. It's inherently healthy for your immune system. You're better off exposing family to a wide range of stimulus than trying to exclude any individual problem substances because there will always be some slipping through the net.
 
alanf said:
There may be something in it, but probably not the whole story. There's an Horizon episode this week about allergies, should be on iplayer for a few weeks. There's a lot emerging about the process and why western lifestyles have such a high proportion of allergic reactions. The basic idea is emerging (I'm paraphrasing) that your immune system needs to be "trained" to recognise friendly bacteria. By extension that should apply to other allergenic material too. An outdoor lifestyle provides a greater variety of stimulus than trying to disinfect everything. Excluding the variety makes anything novel a greater shock because of the limited previous experience. Antibiotics can also really screw up your bacterial balance. My take on it is that the best way to protect yourself and family is doing a bit of gardening, beekeeping and other outdoor stuff, don't confine your diet to highly processed foods. It's inherently healthy for your immune system. You're better off exposing family to a wide range of stimulus than trying to exclude any individual problem substances because there will always be some slipping through the net.
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:iagree:
 
alanf said:
There may be something in it, but probably not the whole story. There's an Horizon episode this week about allergies, should be on iplayer for a few weeks. There's a lot emerging about the process and why western lifestyles have such a high proportion of allergic reactions. The basic idea is emerging (I'm paraphrasing) that your immune system needs to be "trained" to recognise friendly bacteria. By extension that should apply to other allergenic material too. An outdoor lifestyle provides a greater variety of stimulus than trying to disinfect everything. Excluding the variety makes anything novel a greater shock because of the limited previous experience. Antibiotics can also really screw up your bacterial balance. My take on it is that the best way to protect yourself and family is doing a bit of gardening, beekeeping and other outdoor stuff, don't confine your diet to highly processed foods. It's inherently healthy for your immune system. You're better off exposing family to a wide range of stimulus than trying to exclude any individual problem substances because there will always be some slipping through the net.
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Too many over bleached kitchens
 
I think Mike is spot on, he knows what he is talking about, it funny how many bee farmers wife's become allergic to bee venom, i know of at least five my wife included, watch the clip and make up your own mind
 
After 38 year my immune still hasn't kicked in and I still get an allergic reaction to work.
 
Chrisfnvs said:
... it funny how many bee farmers wife's become allergic to bee venom, i know of at least five my wife included, …
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I would have confidently said "twaddle", but the above adds to my knowing that the SBI's wife recently had a bee-related visit to A&E …



Excellent précis above by AlanF of what I saw of the Horizon programme, btw.
 
Chrisfnvs said:
I think Mike is spot on, he knows what he is talking about, it funny how many bee farmers wife's become allergic to bee venom, i know of at least five my wife included, watch the clip and make up your own mind
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How many bee farmers are there And how many do you know?
You must be aware that you can prove anything you like with statistics.
 
REDWOOD said:
After 38 year my immune still hasn't kicked in and I still get an allergic reaction to work.
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I find the best thing to do is to follow a de-sensitisation programme and expose yourself to very small doses of work at first. I reckon by the time i'm ninety I might be ready for full exposure
 
Chrisfnvs said:
I think Mike is spot on, he knows what he is talking about, it funny how many bee farmers wife's become allergic to bee venom, i know of at least five my wife included, watch the clip and make up your own mind
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All are entitled to their opinions, and I'm just telling my experiences in the matter, but....

Ask Murray MacGregor in Scotland if he thinks it's "twaddle".
 
my wife has been stung many times over the last few years with no reaction.i have seen her stung in the face while gardening without even getting a reaction of any kind.thats all changed this year with painful swellings on the two stings she has recieved.as my hives have increased to near 50 colonies i am recieving a lot more stings.when the bees are defensive there are dozens of stings left in my beesuit.my wife washes the suit so could it be the reactions are due to all the dried venom.personally i think it has a lot to do with it.
 
Definitely not twaddle. Have seen this professionally for some time. The Panorama programme last night goes a long way to explaining this phenomenon. Beekeepers out in the field not only benefit from the desensitisation acquired through repeated frequent stings, they probably have a more healthy diversity of gut bacteria because of their outdoor life style. Wouldn't surprise me if they also have gut parasites. What Panorama didn't explain is that mast cell degranulating peptide in bee stings acts like an amplifier making things much worse when they happen.
 
if this were true all experienced beekeepers must be at risk.
When I started out several years ago i got stung all the time but these days very rarely, only once this season. The reason is that I am more skilled at handling bees.

All experienced beeks are continually exposed but not often stung. Presumably we're all just about to die from our next sting.
NONSENSE.
Get a grip
 
When our bodies are exposed to foreign proteins, the immune system recognises it as foreign and initiates a response to try to get rid of it. The allergic response. The allergic reaction varies from person to person, foreign substance to foreign substance, and can change over time. Through repeated exposure I barely react to stings now. A sting tomorrow could produce an anaphylactic response. There have been many cases reported of illness in partners exposed to toxins through washing their partners work clothes etc.
So, no, it is not twaddle.
Dr Ex.
 
northernsoul said:
if this were true all experienced beekeepers must be at risk.
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All experienced beekeepers are at 'marginally' elevated risk and this is a pattern which is evident in the number of experienced beekeepers who do develop serious reactions later on in their beekeeping lives. The risk is only marginally elevated because beekeepers still retain protection from the diversity of their gut flora/fauna.

When I started out several years ago I got stung all the time but these days very rarely, only once this season. The reason is that I am more skilled at handling bees.
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Which means that you too will be at 'elevated' risk. Risk is a measure of likelihood and is NOT a certainty. There are no absolutes in this.

All experienced beeks are continually exposed but not often stung. Presumably we're all just about to die from our next sting.
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Talking in absolutes in this way is nonsense I agree.

[/QUOTE]
 
protheroe said:
my wife has been stung many times over the last few years with no reaction.i have seen her stung in the face while gardening without even getting a reaction of any kind.thats all changed this year with painful swellings on the two stings she has recieved.as my hives have increased to near 50 colonies i am recieving a lot more stings.when the bees are defensive there are dozens of stings left in my beesuit.my wife washes the suit so could it be the reactions are due to all the dried venom.personally i think it has a lot to do with it.
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Why do you leave the stings in your bee suit? I check mine after every session and remove any stings present. If I'm only working my own apiary and there aren't any stings it's ok for reuse. Any stings and it goes in the wash.
(I have even been taught how to use the washing machine :))
 
Interesting and rather worrying thread!!

Care must be taken using 'well this happened to me and some other guy up the road so it must be something in it...' types approach to these situations

In Mike's anecdote we don't know what would have happened if he was not a beekeeper. Maybe we can explain this simply due to the increase chance of beekeepers families being stung due to bee being around and hence its more likely they will be stung and therefore find out they are allergic. Other may simply not know. Alternatively it may be 'bang on the money'.

The 1/10 vs 1/100 statistic, if correctly collected, however seems compelling. Does anybody know where this originates (original study)?
 
Gilberdyke John said:
Why do you leave the stings in your bee suit? I check mine after every session and remove any stings present. If I'm only working my own apiary and there aren't any stings it's ok for reuse. Any stings and it goes in the wash.
(I have even been taught how to use the washing machine :))
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makes no difference,the venom is still injected into the cloth of the suit.weekly inspections means weekly wash of suit unless the bees are behaving and then 2 to 3 weeks before wash
 
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