Spray

By chance saw the farmer in the field next to my hives just now, putting up notices.
He had sprayed the field yesterday (when I was not there) with a weedkiller called POLO, which he says is sufficiently toxic that no cattle, dogs or walkers should go into the field for two weeks.

My hives are up against the fence for that field, as are the chickens.
Very low apparent bee activity today – I wonder if they’ve been affected? And what about toxicity of the honey now?

I despair, I have asked him before (twice) to let me know if he's doing anything so I can shut the bees in/move them.

No apology (too late anyway) nor was there when his heifers broke into the garden and ate our vegetable garden and fruit bushes.

Does anyone now anything about this POLO?

Headnavigator said:

By chance saw the farmer in the field next to my hives just now, putting up notices.
He had sprayed the field yesterday (when I was not there) with a weedkiller called POLO, which he says is sufficiently toxic that no cattle, dogs or walkers should go into the field for two weeks.

My hives are up against the fence for that field, as are the chickens.
Very low apparent bee activity today – I wonder if they’ve been affected? And what about toxicity of the honey now?

I despair, I have asked him before (twice) to let me know if he's doing anything so I can shut the bees in/move them.

No apology (too late anyway) nor was there when his heifers broke into the garden and ate our vegetable garden and fruit bushes.

Does anyone now anything about this POLO?

Click to expand...

It doesn't mention it on this site if it is the same stuff:

http://www.agrigem.co.uk/headland-polo.html

Mentions keeping livestock out more as there could be ragwort there.

This may be of some interest to you:

http://www.voluntaryinitiative.org.uk/importedmedia/eis/headlandpolo.pdf

Roola said:

This may be of some interest to you:

http://www.voluntaryinitiative.org.uk/importedmedia/eis/headlandpolo.pdf

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Roola thank you,

'2. BEES Headland Polo is of low toxicity to bees and there is no requirement
to avoid application of the product when bees may be foraging on
flowering weeds.
No risk management necessary'

'Low toxicity to bees' if it can be believed! I can go from feeling like slitting my throat to simply banging my head against the wall!
Thanks to others too, I hadn't found Roola's bit in my frantic web search.

Why can't these dingbats just let us know before they spray? He's a neighbour, has our phone number and knows the bees are there. Grrrr! (and he had no idea whether it was harmful to bees or not)

By chance saw the farmer in the field next to my hives just now, putting up notices.
He had sprayed the field yesterday

Click to expand...

Would have thought that prior notice would be the general rule for this sort of thing..

I would have thought that you might have a case for a civil damages claim if he sprayed something that ended up wiping out your bees.

As a landowner, he has a responsibility to use his land in a way that doesn't cause neighbours or the surrounding area, any damage or nuisance. Although he cant be expected to know everyone who does things like keeping bees nearby, once he has been made aware, I would imagine he then has a responsibility to take all necessary steps to avoid killing your hives, just the same as he has a responsibility to put up the signs to prevent people bringing their animals onto his land.

If he's being an arse, you might want to point out his responsibilities to him as a veiled threat.

HM Honey said:

I would have thought that you might have a case for a civil damages claim if he sprayed something that ended up wiping out your bees.

As a landowner, he has a responsibility to use his land in a way that doesn't cause neighbours or the surrounding area, any damage or nuisance. Although he cant be expected to know everyone who does things like keeping bees nearby, once he has been made aware, I would imagine he then has a responsibility to take all necessary steps to avoid killing your hives, just the same as he has a responsibility to put up the signs to prevent people bringing their animals onto his land.

If he's being an arse, you might want to point out his responsibilities to him as a veiled threat.

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I agree, and would visit my local Solicitor to get a letter issued as a first step. Your bees, their health, are worth protecting. It may cost a few quid to have the letter issued, but what's that cost against replacing a colony or two?

Common courtesy.
Maybe if you take a dollop of dead bees.. Scoop some up from all hives-prob lying on OMF anyway (natural loss) and say can you please tell me in future --as these bees were affected!!! (who knows if they weren't)
May not be high toxicity, but just the spraying causes soaking to the bees and chills them to struggle home. So easy to block in for 4 hours whilst spray settles.
Or maybe a polite letter saying you were distressed to see spraying as you DID ask for a warning. Writing it may get into his brain better.
What crop was it??.. if they need bees to pollinate say you will have to move them to preserve their health, unless you can work together

Headnavigator said:

he says is sufficiently toxic that no cattle, dogs or walkers should go into the field for two weeks.

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Given his attitude over the heifer incident, it does sound like you've got an a**e of a neighbour.

As a matter of interest, do you know what his notices say? is there any form of public access to this field - or are the walkers referred to just his mates?

bontbee said:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . is there any form of public access to this field - or are the walkers referred to just his mates?

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Think you'll find that he's putting up the signs as a kind of "Gt orfff my land"!

There is a public footpath across the field used constantly by dog-walkers (until today!)
The notice says what the field has been treated with, and to keep to the footpath and keep dogs on a lead, which few do.
Angry as I am with him, I can understand the farmer getting hacked off as in previous years he cuts this field for silage then keeps heifers in the field; many of the dog-walkers show little regard for the animals.
In early Summer last year it was a stunning wild-flower meadow. I wonder what it will be this year?

My BKA Secretary has given me the number of someone in FERA to ring, which I will do in the morning.

Probably, but it's "moy" land, not "my"

Sorry, was going off at a tangent - the mention of walkers and dogs got me thinking of other angles regarding public access, but now I have looked at some of the links regarding toxicity, it isn't really relevant...

Headnavigator said:

There is a public footpath across the field used constantly by dog-walkers (until today!)
The notice says what the field has been treated with, and to keep to the footpath and keep dogs on a lead, which few do.
Angry as I am with him, I can understand the farmer getting hacked off as in previous years he cuts this field for silage then keeps heifers in the field; many of the dog-walkers show little regard for the animals.
In early Summer last year it was a stunning wild-flower meadow. I wonder what it will be this year?

My BKA Secretary has given me the number of someone in FERA to ring, which I will do in the morning.

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oops sorry, was composing my last reply when you posted yours. I have to agree: I have a bit more sympathy for him now. Most people don't have a clue about how to behave on farmland. I usually put it down to ignorance and try not to have a confrontation with walkers, as this is almost always going to be counterproductive. I try to explain why I am asking them not to do something, or to do something, and they are usually very apologetic - "we didn't know".

heather said:

common courtesy.
Maybe if you take a dollop of dead bees.. Scoop some up from all hives-prob lying on omf anyway (natural loss) and say can you please tell me in future --as these bees were affected!!! (who knows if they weren't)
may not be high toxicity, but just the spraying causes soaking to the bees and chills them to struggle home. So easy to block in for 4 hours whilst spray settles.
Or maybe a polite letter saying you were distressed to see spraying as you did ask for a warning. Writing it may get into his brain better.
What crop was it??.. If they need bees to pollinate say you will have to move them to preserve their health, unless you can work together

Click to expand...

people need to grow up and stop making stupid remarks about bees been killed by spray when they obviosly are not and he was probably spraying wheat and there would be no bees on the wheat.and when you had taken a dollop of dead bees to him then asked him about working together.. He would probably tell you to go and stick the bees somewhere and then spray his rape in the middle of the hottest part of the day.. And he could,,

dishmop said:

would have thought that prior notice would be the general rule for this sort of thing..

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the farmers that i know have a agronomist to check fields for bugs and fungus. He then makes a spray sheet {advising} the farmer that the crop needs spraying.the farmer then decides iff he needs to spray and on the bottom of the sheet it says please inform beekeepers..... This is {not} a legal requirement, weather the farmer does or does not is up to him... And iff the beekeeper has upset him at sometime or other then the farmer will not inform anyone and spray when he likes... Obviosly iff the spray drifts on to some hives then that is a different matter

Didn't see anywhere that said wheat.. could have been anything. You just presuming.
Bees foraging on a pollination plant could have been soaked and so damaged. Not returned to the hive. He would not know why bees dead.. any more than you.. And I would challenge him..

Its an old lawn/pasture weedkiller

I should wait and see what happens - hopefully not a lot.

2,4-D and MCPA are old fashioned plant hormone weedkillers that are still widely used in gardens for daisy and dandelion control in lawns.

http://www.lawnsmith.co.uk/lawn-care-products/quick-guide-to-buying-lawn-weed-killer/

They are often sold as metallic salts of the acid, so the solutions can be caustic to keep them disolved - hence keep cats and dogs off the wet grass as the caustic will burn the pads on their paws. The spray often has a phenolic stink that makes it seem stronger than it really is.

It is also a good spray for ragwort and was a popular pasture spray, but it tends to make the ragwort palatable as it dies off - hence the stock warning.

To be frank, the farmer sounds like he has an idiotic sense of humour and appears to be someone who delights in winding people up. You have my sympathy that you have such a person for a neighbour, but I would hope that the spray will do no harm to your bees or your chickens.

Heather said:

Didn't see anywhere that said wheat.. could have been anything. You just presuming.
Bees foraging on a pollination plant could have been soaked and so damaged. Not returned to the hive. He would not know why bees dead.. any more than you.. And I would challenge him..

Click to expand...

and I also said PROBABLY spraying wheat.

Headnavigator said:

By chance saw the farmer in the field next to my hives just now, putting up notices.
He had sprayed the field yesterday (when I was not there) with a weedkiller called POLO, which he says is sufficiently toxic that no cattle, dogs or walkers should go into the field for two weeks.

My hives are up against the fence for that field, as are the chickens.
Very low apparent bee activity today – I wonder if they’ve been affected? And what about toxicity of the honey now?


Does anyone now anything about this POLO?

Click to expand...

Polo is a mix of 2,4D & mcpa.
My knowledge of this type of product (hormone weedkillers) which we used in various mixtures depending on weeds present & mostly in spring sown cereals, though they have uses on grassland. In 40 years I have not heard of any problems with the mix as applied, and I would suggest poses no problems once dry on the leaf, 10-15mins in this weather.
The problem of toxicity occurs in relation to what is sprayed. Probably ragwort on grassland, which I believe all landowners have a statutory obligation to control as it is a poisonous plant.
Normally when the plant is growing stock will not touch it, but when cut (mown or damaged) or sprayed & it is dying, it becomes palatable to livestock. Hence the need to keep them out of the field.
A healthy live plant can be used by bees in the production of honey which will then contain some of the toxins present. Usually giving a bitter taste (not tried any myself). If I recall correctly from a previous thread unless you have a bucketful of ragwort honey on your morning toast you should be reasonably ok. I stand to be corrected on this.
So all in all less of a potential problem to you now than it was earlier.