good and bad new modern hive designs

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So we have some "Rose" method loyalists here it appears?

Like I said: when I read the book it had a familiar ring to it. IMO even if Tim Tweaked time of year for splits, and where he bottom supers, there is nothing new about these Ideas and they certainly are not revolutionary.

I don't think it is a bad system regardless of where the idea's came from. I do agree with a single box size, but I think Mike's 8 frame medium and Tim's OSB frames are too shallow. Where I am located the more continuous comb you can get the better for wintering. Which is why I have switched over to Dadant depth.

Reading Tim's Forum there seems to be excessively high winter losses even with his own hives, which I feel is due to the shallow frame. In one thread he questions the thin plywood side as a cause of winter losses die to low R value.
 
Of course I understand this ... but one has to ask what is the point of inspecting this type of hive ... your options for interfering with, say, varroacides, are limited by the design and if you are not going to inspect then what's the point of having it hinged for inspection ?

I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning. Most modern beekeeping practices include inspection as part of the beekeeping method. The hive is inspected for the presence of disease and infection, for judging the state of the colony, for dealing with queen cells, and for fixing any problem that can be fixed by simple comb manipulations. That is why I don't understand your comment "what's the point of inspecting this type of hive".

As I said ... might as well have a LDH or a National/Langstroth etc.. more practical, usable and versatile.

If what you're trying to say here is "it is not better than" an LDH or a National/Langstroth etc, then I really don't have an answer except to say that different bee hives appeal to different needs or preferences.

The selling points of this hive tells me about the void in the market that it is trying to fill: a hive for beekeepers who want to go frameless but don't want complete chaos in the box, and want the ability to do beekeeping pro-actively instead of passively.

Couldn't quite see how this works ... if it hinges as I think it does then the combs won't be perpendicular when it is hinged upward...

If you stand in front of the hive (i.e. where the bees fly in), and you grab hold of the landing board/canopy and lift it straight upwards, the hive will tilt backwards and "hinge" on the rear edge. I don't think there is an actual metal hinge there (can't see it), but imagine it that way. If you lift the front side of the hive up all the way, you'll see the undersides of the comb in lines that run straight down towards the ground.

In the picture below, the hive is tilted so that the top of the hive (facing the camera) rests on a "broom handle", and the board that the man is holding in his hands is the hive bottom that is normally attached to the hive using clips.

11bho2o.jpg


... and, as any top bar owner will tell you, handling unsupported comb is normally done keeping the comb in a vertical plane as the likelihood of comb breaking off under its own weight is high if you subject the attachment to the full weight of comb on its side.

Yes, but in this hive the comb is never in that horizontal position -- it is always in a vertical plane, as you put it.

The picture below shows the hive while you inspect it. In this picture, the hive was hinged on the front of the hive (not on the rear of the hive, as mentioned in my other posts -- both tilt directions occur on their site):

20z63ag.jpg


The only way you could harvest is by cutting the combs off with a warre style knife that has a blade at right angles to a shaft so you can cut the comb away from the top attachment and remove it whole.

What you call a "Warre style knife" is a skep knife. It's a long, thin rod with a blade at the end, at a right angle to the rod, and you can use it not only for harvesting comb but also for doing inspections, by cutting off a thin strip of comb from deep within the nest. That is how skep beekeepers inspect hives for diseases and to determine the position of the brood nest, pollen ring, etc. A local TBH beekeeper says that he finds the skep knife invaluable when cleaning the sides of his hives from brace comb.

Once the bees have built free comb in this type of hive, you are going to be hard pushed to see anything but the bottom edge and a few cells up into the box - so what's the inspection going to achieve?

Beekeepers have inspected such hives for centuries, with success. Just like you can judge a lot by what goes on at the flight opening, you can judge a lot by looking at the undersides of the combs, even if you don't make any cuts using the skep knife. Yes, framed beekeepers can see a lot more, but that doesn't mean frameless beekeepers can't see anything at all.
 
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So we have some "Rose" method loyalists here it appears?

... there is nothing new about these Ideas and they certainly are not revolutionary.

I don't think it is a bad system regardless of where the idea's came from. ...

I agree. Tim just managed to explain a one-box system to me fairly well. (And I'm not a 'loyalist'! I just read widely and use what suits me.)
Kitta
 
I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning. etc .....

Well ... As you know, I'm all for experimentation ... and I'm in the 'low interference' category of beekeeping but, despite your comments, I can't see a lot of benefit in using tbis hive ... there are easier (and I believe better) ways to 'keep' bees that lend themselves to what bees do naturally and still meet the 'low interference' principle.

If there are exponents of this hive then they are fringe beekeepers or masochists as far as I can tell ! Good luck to them - whatever floats your boat is my position !
 
There are easier (and I believe better) ways to 'keep' bees that lend themselves to what bees do naturally and still meet the 'low interference' principle.

I get it :) You think that this is intended as a "low-interference hive" (possibly because you believe all frameless hives must be low-interference hives?) and you then evaluate it by that standard. Naturally it will come up short.

If there are exponents of this hive then they are ... masochists as far as I can tell!

I'm not sure who's the bigger masochist -- he who wants a hive that requires lifting of multiple boxes and multiple pieces of comb, or he who has a hive where the entire nest can be revealed in a single movement and inspected at a glance.
 
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So we have some "Rose" method loyalists here it appears?

Oh, not really. I was just intriged when you posted those comments and then linked to just the home page of Michael's web site (which is a very large web site with many pages on many topics), without explaning it any further.

Like I said: when I read the book it had a familiar ring to it.

Yes, it's fascinating how beekeeping methods come and go and become popular in one region while being forgotten and "rediscovered" in another.

There is nothing new about [Tim's] ideas and they certainly are not revolutionary.

I'm not sure who used the word "revolutionary", but I'm happy to refer to Tim's method as a separate method because it is a specific combination of beekeeping techniques that don't have another name yet. :)
 
Reading Tim's Forum there seems to be excessively high winter losses even with his own hives, which I feel is due to the shallow frame. In one thread he questions the thin plywood side as a cause of winter losses die to low R value.

I read those posts about his high losses. I live near him and we had the wettest coldest summer for over 100 years in 2012. Overall it was the wettest year in recordest history. High losses are hardly unexpected with conditions like that.
 
Does the faux-animated PDF on the first page of this search not cover the gist of it?

Googles search results vary over time. They also vary depending on the location of the computer that does the search. They even vary based on the search history of the user.

When I clicked on your link, I got no PDFs in the results.

If you found an interesting document that helps you to express your point of view you should just link directly to the document.
 
If you found an interesting document that helps you to express your point of view you should just link directly to the document.

Some web sites are deemed "advertising" by the forum staff, and if you lihk directly to a resource (no matter how useful and non-advertising), the forum software munges the URL. And it is against forum rules to circumvent the munge feature by using redirect URLs. So the only option if you want to link to such a resource is to explain in a paragraph how to get to it.

When I clicked on your link, I got no PDFs in the results.

There isn't supposed to be a PDF in the search results. There is supposed to be a web site in the search results, and the web site itself contains a link to the PDF file about 2 screens down.
 
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Well I'm quite new to all this but so far the bees seem happy.
The clip together frames are easy to use; the debris tray is easy to clean and check without disturbing the hive; the clips holding together are easy and handles make it easy to lift, the feeders are clever - though syrup seems to be more popular than fondant; can apparently be used to keep two small colonies in a 'split' hive; downsides are that putting the feeders/lids on always seems to crush quite a few bees and same for the top lid. Too big to go in the dishwasher for cleaning. Strongly built so far. Limited to large parts from same supplier and Langstroth stuff is not as common. Obviously you can't nail bits together. I've got two colonies now after collecting a swarm. So i will have to buy a third hive.
Must stress I am doing this for a bit of fun, not to do it at minimum cost. I would probably have bought a Beehaus - but they did not show up at the Telford show in 2013 and this lot did. And I fancied something a bit different.
 
I was googling for flat-pack top-bar hives and found this innovative project: the Bee Crib. It offers glue/nail/screw-free assembly in 2 minutes, although I wonder how sturdy this thing would be. It even comes with observation window, and I like that the screened bottom board is removable. An interesting innovation is that the top bars are not perfectly horizontal but at an angle, so that the flat roof is also angled.

P6225085edit.jpg


I discovered that Thornes also has a flat-pack top-bar hive (for EUR 80), but unfortunately I was unable to find pictures of what it would look like when it is assembled. It's from experior-grade plywood, but you must paint it.
 
Sorry, I keep returning to this thread. Here's a South African flat-pack bee hive system... the hives are quite expensive (a 6-frame brood plus super will set you back GBP 100, and an 11-frame double brood plus double super is GBP 190).

Honey-Production-Hive-Small.jpg


http://www.bestbeehives.com/
 
Unbelievable text, like this

"Box weight is under 20 kg with frames. 11 frames"

Langstroth frame full of honey weights 2.5 kg. 11 frames are 28 kg.

Here is another "<i>
The composite structure allows for a hive lifespan of 50 years, whereas wooden hives last 4 to 6 years."</i>

Bull excrement. (some of the local Association wooden hives are at least 30 years old. I have wooden hives six years old - and they were made from pallet wood...)
 
Here is another "<i>
The composite structure allows for a hive lifespan of 50 years, whereas wooden hives last 4 to 6 years."</i>

Bull excrement. (some of the local Association wooden hives are at least 30 years old. I have wooden hives six years old - and they were made from pallet wood...)
Yes, I did see that! I don't know about all those ventilation holes either - but then, I've never kept bees in SA.
 
Yes, I did see that! I don't know about all those ventilation holes either - but then, I've never kept bees in SA.

It looks again like something to gull the gullible - why would someone in SA spend that much money on a hive? The standard hive out there is the Langstroth - small entrance, no ventilation holes, no holes in crown boards and solid floors - the bees seem to cope with the heat out there no bother. Most suppliers out there will sell you a hive outfit - brood box,QX,super, solid floor with entrance block, roof and waxed frames ready creosoted for between six and eight hundred rand - less than thirty quid at todays pitiful rate! although out in Lesotho that's the equivalent of one year's secondary education (Including uniform)
The Yarpies aren't as daft as us to be spending loads of cash on gimmicky toys :D
 

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