Still swarming

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Torq

Field Bee
***
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
505
Reaction score
9
Location
Athlone. Co. Westmeath. Ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
4 Hives, 4 Nucs.
A friend lost a prime swarm on Saturday. You would think that at this time of year they should be settled down and chilling out in anticipation of the impending autumn/winter.
 
I saw a photo of a Post Office wall post box taken in Tallan Bay near Seaton Cornwall with a prime swarm, taken last week by a beekeeper also attending the BIBBA conference.

Very mild in Cornwall!


James
 
I saw a photo of a Post Office wall post box taken in Tallan Bay near Seaton Cornwall with a prime swarm, taken last week by a beekeeper also attending the BIBBA conference.

Very mild in Cornwall!


James

But the BBKA invite their beekeepers to tell us how to overwinter hives...
 
A friend lost a prime swarm on Saturday. You would think that at this time of year they should be settled down and chilling out in anticipation of the impending autumn/winter.

Lost a clipped queen trying to swarm last week. Got QC's due to hatch this week. Just added supers to two for a bit of space relief. The're certainly not bedding down yet.
 
A friend lost a prime swarm on Saturday. You would think that at this time of year they should be settled down and chilling out in anticipation of the impending autumn/winter.


Does a quenn swarm when there's no room to lay but hive still has room for more bees or is it mainly when hive is congested? Reason I'm asking is that this good weather is going to continue into mid to late Oct and I'm thinking should other Beeks add a super back on because their hive are going to get pretty congested if these hives continue to be busy bringing in a flow. I know mines is at the min after I watched them for half an hour and where full of pollen or nectar. If some Berks have fed and their brood boxes are full, what does the bees do with all this extra flow?
 
Lost a clipped queen trying to swarm last week. Got QC's due to hatch this week. Just added supers to two for a bit of space relief. The're certainly not bedding down yet.

Funnyly how I was slaughtered for opening my hive yet there's beeks adding supers this time of year. IMO, adding the super is the smart move considering the weather were getting.
 
Funnyly how I was slaughtered for opening my hive yet there's beeks adding supers this time of year. IMO, adding the super is the smart move considering the weather were getting.

It all depends on your area and bees but when I came back from holiday I already lost one.
Sunday it hit mid twenties and it was chaos. I didn't really want to add supers or do weekly inspections now but weather is dictating things and there is a lot of IVY here.

Just have to monitor and reduce when necessary. I reckon middle to end of Oct here though.
 
Just been up to have a look at mine about 10 past 7, mainly to see what the badgers are up to, (they have just moved back after absense while my neighbour built his house) and was suprised to see how much activity was still going on, alot of bees milling about round the entrances. Still definately tee shirt weather here even at dusk. Hoping they won't want to swarm again but will keep an eye on them.
 
It all depends on your area and bees but when I came back from holiday I already lost one.
Sunday it hit mid twenties and it was chaos. I didn't really want to add supers or do weekly inspections now but weather is dictating things and there is a lot of IVY here.

Just have to monitor and reduce when necessary. I reckon middle to end of Oct here though.


Yeah I understand it can be different weather for different areas but the UK and Ireland are getting unexpected weather for this time of year and where I am, I've never experienced this weather in late sept/early oct in my 13 years living here. I know beeks who closed up their hives over a month ago with full stores. I wonder how their getting on if they didn't add more boxes. I'm just a newbie but it would seem to me that with full stores, no room to lay in brood box and with this late flow coming in, their going to have problems but like I said, I'm just a newbie and there might be somethingg I don't know about the bees being able to deal with this, thou I'm sure there'd be someone coming along soon to correct me if I'm wrong
 
Does a quenn swarm when there's no room to lay but hive still has room for more bees or is it mainly when hive is congested? Reason I'm asking is that this good weather is going to continue into mid to late Oct and I'm thinking should other Beeks add a super back on because their hive are going to get pretty congested if these hives continue to be busy bringing in a flow. I know mines is at the min after I watched them for half an hour and where full of pollen or nectar. If some Berks have fed and their brood boxes are full, what does the bees do with all this extra flow?

If the brood box IS stuffed full and there is absolutely no room and the queen is still laying then the conventional way to sort this problem is to put a super of drawn comb (ideally) or foundation if no drawn comb is available BELOW the brood box. It's called a Nadir. No need to disturb the brood chamber - indeed, no real need to remove the Crown board even ... it's a two man job - one lifts the Brood box off the floor the other slides the super underneath, it's all back together in seconds and the bees will then make use of the extra space if they need it for stores and it will reduce any chances of them swarming .... But Bees will do what they want so there's no guarantees.

The super can be left there until spring - won't harm the colony as heat rises and they will take up residence at the warmest part of the hive.

If you are now going to ask how do you know how much space is in the hive without inspecting ... weigh it or heft it ... and keep a note of the weights so next year you will know.

PS: I think you were 'slaughtered' not for inspecting your colonies (which implies a reason) but for tinkering with them ....
 
Last edited:
If the brood box IS stuffed full and there is absolutely no room and the queen is still laying then the conventional way to sort this problem is to put a super of drawn comb (ideally) or foundation if no drawn comb is available BELOW the brood box. It's called a Nadir. No need to disturb the brood chamber - indeed, no real need to remove the Crown board even ... it's a two man job - one lifts the Brood box off the floor the other slides the super underneath, it's all back together in seconds and the bees will then make use of the extra space if they need it for stores and it will reduce any chances of them swarming .... But Bees will do what they want so there's no guarantees.

The super can be left there until spring - won't harm the colony as heat rises and they will take up residence at the warmest part of the hive.

If you are now going to ask how do you know how much space is in the hive without inspecting ... weigh it or heft it ... and keep a note of the weights so next year you will know.

PS: I think you were 'slaughtered' not for inspecting your colonies (which implies a reason) but for tinkering with them ....


Interesting! It makes sense now why the super goes on the bottom at this time of year. I would think if this weather keeps up, I'll be very close to having to put an extra super under one of my hives because last time I looked, they where almost full and that was over a week ago.
 
Last edited:
Bees move across and up from brood nest. There's no reason to add the super underneath and they naturally store above.
 
Bees move across and up from brood nest. There's no reason to add the super underneath and they naturally store above.

Yes but if above is full, would they not just store below instead of swarm because of no room.
 
I colleterd a prime swarm today and had two calls about cut out wots going on.
 
I'm just a newbie, I'll let someone else comment.

Putting it underneath won't stop them swarming. Adding space may suppress the urge but only an inspection will tell you if there going to go. I personally have added on top so I can gauge how much they are filling up. They may not even need all the space which means I can take it off if necessary. I'll still aim to get them down to one box.

I've wintered on with supers on top no problems and wintered on double brood but found they don't need that much much stores and ended up with full frames coming out of winter. Spring is where you really need to watch the level though.

As for putting underneath there are those who are in favour of this set up. I still believe the colony will move across and then up.
 
Hi guys I put super underneath most of my hives until spring then put back on top seems to work for me
 
Putting it underneath won't stop them swarming. Adding space may suppress the urge but only an inspection will tell you if there going to go. I personally have added on top so I can gauge how much they are filling up. They may not even need all the space which means I can take it off if necessary. I'll still aim to get them down to one box.

I've wintered on with supers on top no problems and wintered on double brood but found they don't need that much much stores and ended up with full frames coming out of winter. Spring is where you really need to watch the level though.

As for putting underneath there are those who are in favour of this set up. I still believe the colony will move across and then up.

You miss the point ... if you put a super on top then you will end up with the brood in it come spring and stores, potentially, left below in the brood box. You can't leave a queen excluder in place to stop the queen moving up and laying as you risk her being left out as the cluster will establish itself at the top of the hive.

Put a super underneath and if they need the space for honey they will fill it but the brood nest will be where it should be in Spring .. you can then, when Spring arrives, remove the super from underneath the brood box when, with luck, by then, it will be empty. Wintering with supers on top of the hive is Soooooo.... old fashioned ...

In addition ... Irishguy has made kingspan bonnets for his hives so the likelihood (if it's anything like my insulated hives) there will be brood for most of the winter and a very early start to brooding in the spring ...
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top