why this!!

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irishguy

Field Bee
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
865
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Location
ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
2 over wintered nucs
I was over having a wee look at my bees coming and going about an hour ago just to see how they where getting on. All them where still bringing in pollen then I had a wee peak under all 3 hives(1 a small nuc) and below the 2 main hives I noticed the bees had chalk brood on the mesh screen. I noticed this on one hive then when looking under the next, I couldn't believe what I seen. A cluster of bees maybe a fist (or half fist) in size.

I'm wanting to know has anyone encountered this before and why is it their doing this. Reading online or books I have, a cluster usually has a queen in the middle but if this is the case, what is my queen doing under the mesh with such a small cluster of bees. There's also a few dead and nearly dead bees. Can anyone enlightened me why this is happened.





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Were you smoking weed at the time?:sifone:
 
Instead of finding their way in the front door by sight, they've smelt the hive through the OMF and are just trying to get home.

Can they access the underfloor area from the front?
If so, you might want to block that side off.
 
wessexmario said:
Instead of finding their way in the front door by sight, they've smelt the hive through the OMF and are just trying to get home.

Can they access the underfloor area from the front?
If so, you might want to block that side off.
Click to expand...


Are all under hives not accessible from the front?

Do you think theres no queen there and what about the dead and near dead bees, would that be just today or over the course of a few days?
 
one of my hives did that for a while when I first installed the OMF, so I left the varroa board in and they know where the front door is now.
 
unless you've actually seen the queen in that lot, I'd suggest they've just misread the flight control approach radar :)
 
I see frames of undrawn foundation and next to no bees. Looks like a colony on the way out, or one that was never really there.

One of my hives is often so busy that the bees use the omf as a shortcut. Instead of entering the hive the conventional way they transfer nectar through the mesh.
 
Think about it, you are flying into your hive and go too low, you can see everyone else above you and can't get in. If you had managed to get in and come across a QE, you can sqeeze through it, but not the OMF. So. Even if there is an open area to the front of your hive below the entrance, the obvious answer is to block it off. Now when the bees fly in they don't undershoot and can find the entrance easily. Sometimes you can lose a few hundred bees because they fly under and then die of cold trying to reach their mates above. OMF has its advantages and disadvantages, this is one of the latter.
Wessexmarrio explained what the problem was...... Up to you to find the answer! Hope I have helped
E
 
Torq said:
I see frames of undrawn foundation and next to no bees. Looks like a colony on the way out, or one that was never really there.

One of my hives is often so busy that the bees use the omf as a shortcut. Instead of entering the hive the conventional way they transfer nectar through the mesh.
Click to expand...



That is a super under the brood box which was advised to do by jbm a few weeks ago. I gave back them 5 frames of honey thou it looks like they've been moving or consuming it.
 
enrico said:
Think about it, you are flying into your hive and go too low, you can see everyone else above you and can't get in. If you had managed to get in and come across a QE, you can sqeeze through it, but not the OMF. So. Even if there is an open area to the front of your hive below the entrance, the obvious answer is to block it off. Now when the bees fly in they don't undershoot and can find the entrance easily. Sometimes you can lose a few hundred bees because they fly under and then die of cold trying to reach their mates above. OMF has its advantages and disadvantages, this is one of the latter.
Wessexmarrio explained what the problem was...... Up to you to find the answer! Hope I have helped
E
Click to expand...



Not once was this pointed out to me but thanks for your reply along with the others. I'll have a look tomorrow and if the cluster has gone, I'll cover the front thou what will I do if its still clustering, can I mover the cluster or will they go mental
 
Those frames above the mesh floor look as though they are not drawn out - or not very well drawn out - that's my first worry. Second is that there are no live bees noticeable above the mesh floor ?

Where do you put your inspection board in this hive ? If those bees are still there tomorrow and it's fair weather then I would be inclined to brush them into a box, put your inspection floor in to discourage them from returning to the mesh floor and then dump them onto the landing board to find their way into the hive ...

As for concerns 1 & 2 above - need a bit more info from you.

Ahh ... just caught your last post ...crossed with mine ... If it's a super under the brood box I would not be concerned too much about the lack of drawn comb and bees in there - they will be where it's warmest - at the top of the hive. So .. as for the small cluster - as above.
 
Last edited:
pargyle said:
Those frames above the mesh floor look as though they are not drawn out - or not very well drawn out - that's my first worry. Second is that there are no live bees noticeable above the mesh floor ?

Where do you put your inspection board in this hive ? If those bees are still there tomorrow and it's fair weather then I would be inclined to brush them into a box, put your inspection floor in to discourage them from returning to the mesh floor and then dump them onto the landing board to find their way into the hive ...

As for concerns 1 & 2 above - need a bit more info from you.

Ahh ... just caught your last post ...crossed with mine ... If it's a super under the brood box I would not be concerned too much about the lack of drawn comb and bees in there - they will be where it's warmest - at the top of the hive. So .. as for the small cluster - as above.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the bottom super and it was around 5 o'clock when temps where dropping fast so most bees would have been in brood box I'd guess. There was still few bees flying in and out with a flow half hour before it and at 3, it was busy enough.

My inspection board slides in just half inch or inch below the MF. I'll close it off in the afternoon and hopefully the bees will have declusterd by then.
 
Just had a look at my pic again, this floor doesn't have a slot for an inspection board because this floor and brood box was given to me from another beek when I was having the swarms. All my own floors have the slots thou.
 
irishguy said:
Just had a look at my pic again, this floor doesn't have a slot for an inspection board because this floor and brood box was given to me from another beek when I was having the swarms. All my own floors have the slots thou.
Click to expand...

If they have gone, wedge a bit of cardboard or correx under the mesh floor on top of those noggins on the stand - just for a day or two until they get the idea that the front door is best ... I'm sure they have just got a bit confused and missed the entrance ...
 
pargyle said:
If they have gone, wedge a bit of cardboard or correx under the mesh floor on top of those noggins on the stand - just for a day or two until they get the idea that the front door is best ... I'm sure they have just got a bit confused and missed the entrance ...
Click to expand...



Will do, I'll slightly lift the floor from stand and slide some cardboard in. What about the chalk brood, is this normal for this time of year. I've only seen it in the 2 hives, there's none in the smaller nuc, why this?
 
irishguy said:
What about the chalk brood, is this normal for this time of year. I've only seen it in the 2 hives, there's none in the smaller nuc, why this?
Click to expand...

Chalkbrood is usually the result of damp conditions ... more often seen in colonies after wet weather in spring. Most strong colonies can cope with it but your colonies have not been the fittest and the chalk brood may just be one more symptom of your colonies general health.

It's a fungus spread via spores that come from the 'mummies' and in the worst cases the only resolution is to re-queen but, if it IS chalkbrood, there ain't a lot you can do about it at this time of the year. Keep your fingers crossed and leave them to get on with it I'm afraid.

It attacks the bee larvae in the cells - it's a disease of brood - so there's not going to be a lot of brood in the next few months so hopefully, with your well insulated hives, a short winter and a warm dry spring they will cope with it.
 
pargyle said:
Chalkbrood is usually the result of damp conditions ... more often seen in colonies after wet weather in spring. Most strong colonies can cope with it but your colonies have not been the fittest and the chalk brood may just be one more symptom of your colonies general health.

It's a fungus spread via spores that come from the 'mummies' and in the worst cases the only resolution is to re-queen but, if it IS chalkbrood, there ain't a lot you can do about it at this time of the year. Keep your fingers crossed and leave them to get on with it I'm afraid.

It attacks the bee larvae in the cells - it's a disease of brood - so there's not going to be a lot of brood in the next few months so hopefully, with your well insulated hives, a short winter and a warm dry spring they will cope with it.
Click to expand...

Thats incorrect. It is lower temperatures not damp Go look look at the research on Chalkbrood by the chalkbrood researcher Flores. High RH is secondary. It needs cold, high RH makes the effect of Cold worse.
 
derekm said:
Thats incorrect. It is lower temperatures not damp Go look look at the research on Chalkbrood by the chalkbrood researcher Flores. High RH is secondary. It needs cold, high RH makes the effect of Cold worse.
Click to expand...

YES... guilty of keeping it simple ... but, not sure whether it IS chalkbrood as IG has not had cold wet conditions and also has kingspan hive bonnets on his hives .... so they should not be cold ! Indeed, IIRC he has 100mm of Kingspan bonnets ...
 
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