why this!!

irishguy · Oct 24, 2014

pargyle said:
YES... guilty of keeping it simple ... but, not sure whether it IS chalkbrood as IG has not had cold wet conditions and also has kingspan hive bonnets on his hives .... so they should not be cold ! Indeed, IIRC he has 100mm of Kingspan bonnets ...

My reasons for thinking its chalkbrood is they look to me like the dead mummies I've seen on Google images when I search for CB. I'll count them tomorrow just to get an idea of how much there is.

pargyle · Oct 24, 2014

irishguy said:
My reasons for thinking its chalkbrood is they look to me like the dead mummies I've seen on Google images when I search for CB. I'll count them tomorrow just to get an idea of how much there is.

They may just be old ones that have been cleared out of the cells .. smaller colonies sometimes just don't have the resources to complete all housekeeping tasks ...

There are some good images of chalkbrood 'mummies' on this site:

http://www.cornwallhoney.co.uk/beepedia/chalkbrood.htm

irishguy · Oct 24, 2014

pargyle said:
They may just be old ones that have been cleared out of the cells .. smaller colonies sometimes just don't have the resources to complete all housekeeping tasks ...

There are some good images of chalkbrood 'mummies' on this site:

http://www.cornwallhoney.co.uk/beepedia/chalkbrood.htm

It might have something to do with when I bought them because if I remember correctly, there was a really small patch of white chalky stuff in a few cells. I think I made a thread back then with pics.

sharonh · Oct 25, 2014

Hi irish guy ,
Last year I found a cluster under one of my hives. It was early Aug. I dropped them into a poly nuc. It was a small cast with a queen.
Luckily I didn't put them back into hive they were under, as they had their queen.
After that, I use some wind break around my hive stands to stop bees going under like that. Would be an option for you. You can buy it by the metre in most garden centers.
It's a very small cluster that you show in your pic's. they may be gone today when you have another look .
Do you have any idea how long they are there?
Here's a picture of wind break around my stands

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

sharonh said:
Hi irish guy ,
Last year I found a cluster under one of my hives. It was early Aug. I dropped them into a poly nuc. It was a small cast with a queen.
Luckily I didn't put them back into hive they were under, as they had their queen.
After that, I use some wind break around my hive stands to stop bees going under like that. Would be an option for you. You can buy it by the metre in most garden centers.
It's a very small cluster that you show in your pic's. they may be gone today when you have another look .
Do you have any idea how long they are there?
Here's a picture of wind break around my stands

Thanks for the pic. No I dont know how long their there, only really had a look under yesterday. Any other day its just looking at front of hives. I really hope there's no queen there because if there is, that must mean I've had a SS or my queen has left the hive. I'm now worried about what to do next be cause if it is a queen, its no chance of surviving now I'd think.

sharonh · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
Thanks for the pic. No I dont know how long their there, only really had a look under yesterday. Any other day its just looking at front of hives. I really hope there's no queen there because if there is, that must mean I've had a SS or my queen has left the hive. I'm now worried about what to do next be cause if it is a queen, its no chance of surviving now I'd think.

If it was SS, it would be unlikely that the old queen left the hive. Mother & daughter can happily be there together for a while until bees decide to discard of old queen.
It most likely is a few bees that from queuing up outside to get in, went under instead,out of the weather. Re check today, they may be gone.
Would be unusual for a cast this late but when you don't know how long they are there. I was seeing drones up until the past week.
Nothing would surprise me with bees. Unlikely they would survive at this stage though.
Anyone check again later on. You may be worrying over nothing.

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

sharonh said:
If it was SS, it would be unlikely that the old queen left the hive. Mother & daughter can happily be there together for a while until bees decide to discard of old queen.
It most likely is a few bees that from queuing up outside to get in, went under instead,out of the weather. Re check today, they may be gone.
Would be unusual for a cast this late but when you don't know how long they are there. I was seeing drones up until the past week.
Nothing would surprise me with bees. Unlikely they would survive at this stage though.
Anyone check again later on. You may be worrying over nothing.

This has been a year of unlikely and unusuals in beekeeping going by what I've been reading here and other internet forums but I hope this isn't the case with this cluster and there's a queen there.

sharonh · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
This has been a year of unlikely and unusuals in beekeeping going by what I've been reading here and other internet forums but I hope this isn't the case with this cluster and there's a queen there.

I know that, but it's a very small cluster. And don't think,that just because its under that hive, that the queen must be from that hive.
I thankfully didn't assume that & put them back into that hive. I put them into a poly nuc,
& they survived. The hive they were under had a queen so lucky I didn't put them into it.
It was earlier though, Aug bank holiday weekend. Just had a job stopping wasps from killing them until she got more bees. Same colony this year produced 3 additional hives for me.
All I can say is check later. Could have just been a few strays.

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

pargyle said:
he has 100mm of Kingspan bonnets ...

Would this not create moisture in the hive and make the damp conditions. I remember reading somewhere that insulation can cause this thou I think Derek disagrees on this.

Derek I'm curious to know have you ever lifted your cover off just to see if there's any moisture at all between crown board and bonnet?

Erichalfbee · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
Derek I'm curious to know have you ever lifted your cover off just to see if there's any moisture at all between crown board and bonnet?

I have and I can tell you there isn't a hint of moisture and both top and sides of hive are toasty warm

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

Erichalfbee said:
I have and I can tell you there isn't a hint of moisture and both top and sides of hive are toasty warm

Can I ask how many times did you check and what was the weather conditions like when you did

user 6228 · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
Would this not create moisture in the hive and make the damp conditions. I remember reading somewhere that insulation can cause this thou I think Derek disagrees on this.

Derek I'm curious to know have you ever lifted your cover off just to see if there's any moisture at all between crown board and bonnet?

No, but thats not where condensation would occur anyway. You need a surface below the dew point temperature. Thats going to be much lower down.

Erichalfbee · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
Can I ask how many times did you check and what was the weather conditions like when you did

Two of the colonies are still taking invert syrup from a rapid feeder so I am checking every two days. I have dodged showers to do these checks.
The one that has no feeder on top I have looked at once, three weeks after I put the jacket on. This box has a polycarbonate crown board and there is no condensation under this either. All are on 14 x 12 with a nadired shallow

pargyle · Oct 25, 2014

Erichalfbee said:
Two of the colonies are still taking invert syrup from a rapid feeder so I am checking every two days. I have dodged showers to do these checks.
The one that has no feeder on top I have looked at once, three weeks after I put the jacket on. This box has a polycarbonate crown board and there is no condensation under this either. All are on 14 x 12 with a nadired shallow

+1 ... My hives are well insulated, kingspan on top of clear crownboards ... never seen the slightest amount of condensation. IG ... stop worrying about condensation it's a NON ISSUE ...

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

Right, got a chance to check this cluster again and was still there only there seemed to be more bees hanging from it. Another thing I noticed there was also a lot of bees just on their own near the cluster not moving. I actually thought they where dead! I got myself a pint glass and managed to get 95% of the bees into the glass, the other 5% where in ackward places so just left them there. I then tried to put them back through the entrance but nothing was happening. Looking down at this cluster and poking it with my brush I was thinking they where goners. Was standing there for the next 10muns with these bees in a glass wondering WTF I'm going to do with them.

What I done next is probably a classic sign that's shows I'm a newbie beek. Anyway I brought the bees into the house where the temps would be higher, I took the bees out, lined them up and put some toilet paper round them for a blanket for more heat to see if they'd peark up abit and waited to see what happened.

Right, I know I might sound like a mad Irish man but I'm not that mad so just kidding about the bog roll above lol. What I did do thou that is probably on par with that madness above is, seeing as I thought the bees where on their way out(as in dying) I boiled the kettle, mixed in boiling water with some cold water to make Luke warm, poured it I to a pan and stuck the glass with the bees in it to warm them up covered with a visitors veil so none would get lose if they weren't dead. Now in hindsight I should have left them alone in the house till the morning/afternoon but at the time, I thought they where taity bread(dead) but hindsights a great thing they say.

It took a few mins for them to liven up and started to decluster. One thing I did notice, not one went to sting me when I had my hands on the veil and moving a few with my fingers.

I took the glass out of the pot and the bees started to cluster again in the veil, thou all in different clusters so I added a plastic container, shook the bees in it, covered with my visitors veil and left them be. Tomorrow I'll try to put them back in the hive when temps are up.

Even reading that back myself it does sound crazy but it was either that to see if they where still alive or just throw them on the ground. Was this a mistake on my part as to decluster them, IMO no because I've learnt something from it. Its only a mistake if I didn't learn. Next time I'll just leave them to decluster themselves.

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

O and I forgot to mention I covered the front so this doesn't happen again!

irishguy · Oct 25, 2014

Erichalfbee said:
Two of the colonies are still taking invert syrup from a rapid feeder so I am checking every two days. I have dodged showers to do these checks.
The one that has no feeder on top I have looked at once, three weeks after I put the jacket on. This box has a polycarbonate crown board and there is no condensation under this either. All are on 14 x 12 with a nadired shallow

One thing I did notice while I was under the other hives, in my nuc it seems the bottom of some frames (maybe 4 or 5 thou couldn't see the rest) there isn't any capped SS or honey. The bees must have consumed it with all that rain weve had thou there was still a flow coming in. I'm confused!! Should I start feeding it again to fill in them gaps or just leave it? What I did notice is there's bees clustered between 7 frames, nearly the whole length of the NYC. ( nuc inside a hive, reduced down with some insulation)

midnight sun · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
What I done next is probably a classic sign that's shows I'm a newbie beek. Anyway I brought the bees into the house where the temps would be higher, I took the bees out, lined them up and put some toilet paper round them for a blanket for more heat to see if they'd peark up abit and waited to see what happened.

I found this funny, Irishguy, but it shows you do care about your bees.
Put them back into the hive first chance would probably the next best option and follow the previous posters advice on screening. Possible insulation in roof etc.
P.S. If they look like they are short on stores then give some feed I would say. Only you can tell.
Best of luck.

Erichalfbee · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
O and I forgot to mention

You had me in such suspense........was there a queen?

kazmcc · Oct 25, 2014

irishguy said:
Right, got a chance to check this cluster again and was still there only there seemed to be more bees hanging from it. Another thing I noticed there was also a lot of bees just on their own near the cluster not moving. I actually thought they where dead! I got myself a pint glass and managed to get 95% of the bees into the glass, the other 5% where in ackward places so just left them there. I then tried to put them back through the entrance but nothing was happening. Looking down at this cluster and poking it with my brush I was thinking they where goners. Was standing there for the next 10muns with these bees in a glass wondering WTF I'm going to do with them.

What I done next is probably a classic sign that's shows I'm a newbie beek. Anyway I brought the bees into the house where the temps would be higher, I took the bees out, lined them up and put some toilet paper round them for a blanket for more heat to see if they'd peark up abit and waited to see what happened.

Right, I know I might sound like a mad Irish man but I'm not that mad so just kidding about the bog roll above lol. What I did do thou that is probably on par with that madness above is, seeing as I thought the bees where on their way out(as in dying) I boiled the kettle, mixed in boiling water with some cold water to make Luke warm, poured it I to a pan and stuck the glass with the bees in it to warm them up covered with a visitors veil so none would get lose if they weren't dead. Now in hindsight I should have left them alone in the house till the morning/afternoon but at the time, I thought they where taity bread(dead) but hindsights a great thing they say.

It took a few mins for them to liven up and started to decluster. One thing I did notice, not one went to sting me when I had my hands on the veil and moving a few with my fingers.

I took the glass out of the pot and the bees started to cluster again in the veil, thou all in different clusters so I added a plastic container, shook the bees in it, covered with my visitors veil and left them be. Tomorrow I'll try to put them back in the hive when temps are up.

Even reading that back myself it does sound crazy but it was either that to see if they where still alive or just throw them on the ground. Was this a mistake on my part as to decluster them, IMO no because I've learnt something from it. Its only a mistake if I didn't learn. Next time I'll just leave them to decluster themselves.

Aww lol, you big softy! Sounds like something I'd do to haha

why this!!

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