When not to sell a nucleus

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jd101k2000

Field Bee
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
654
Reaction score
0
Location
Caerbryn, near Llandybie
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
7
This year, like more than one or two of you, I have a surplus of bees.

You know it has gone from:
'The bees seem to be taking up a lot of time'
through
'Doesn't this seem to be costing a lot of money'
to
'If I see another swarm, it's ant powder for the lot of them'

So, I have started selling them... and started having mis-givings.

I have had a number of enquiries from people who do not know what a 14 x 12 is (or an eke), who 'don't want to keep bees for the honey', through to people who don't think you need to seal a nuke to put it in a car (but if it falls over you will have a car full of bees and you haven't brought a bee suit).

I have not made any of that up.

Still, I have sold the bees... what would make you refuse to sell bees to people, really?

Looking for some rules of the road/suggestions.
 
Have they all got your phone number too for the inevitable phone calls?
 
Careful! They may well be new forum members shortly (or even already) - you know the type; not the thinking new beeks, but the others in the beginners section - those that clearly have not read a beekeeping book and are the ones that immediately complain when replies are too honest, etc.
 
How about trying to persuade them to join their local association where they can do some courses and be supported by a mentor?
 
If they aren't going to use poly or a "hive bonnet".
All our bees are kept in a minimum of polyhives. They will take a major set back going into standard wood as the balance of bees castes and population are different
 
Would it be a good idea to let buyers open the colony and perform their own inspection, under supervision of course?

Yes. It might tell you a lot about their level of beekeeping skills and knowledge or lack thereof. When I have (as now) a number of nucs for sale, I offer prospective buyers an honest appraisal of the various nucs and give them an opportunity to select and inspect their nuc of choice. I made a decision at the start of this season that I would not sell bees to anyone who is not a member of a beekeeping association. I promptly ran into problems with that as one of the first folk who approached me to buy an nuc this year was not a 'current' member of a beekeeping association. He had however kept bees for a number of years and has since come to a meeting of one of the associations of which I am a member. I also took the decision to pay for membership of an association for him out of the price of the nuc as I thought access to the BBKA news and the association talks would really help him out.
 
Being a member of an association doesn't mean a great deal. A woman contacted me this week regarding a queenless colony she has bought from a member of the the local association. I know the guy and he's been keeping bees for well over 15 years.
 
I have had a number of enquiries from people who do not know what a 14 x 12 is (or an eke), who 'don't want to keep bees for the honey', through to people who don't think you need to seal a nuke to put it in a car (but if it falls over you will have a car full of bees and you haven't brought a bee suit).

What's wrong with people not interested in honey? It's not my primary reason for keeping bees and I give most of my honey away to people I know.
 
What's wrong with people not interested in honey? It's not my primary reason for keeping bees and I give most of my honey away to people I know.

Nothing per se, but it was the implication in that keeping bees for honey I was exploiting them in a ruthless manner. Perhaps I am just too sensitive ;-)
 
Difficult one, I'm not the tree huggy name every bee type but nor am I the unscrupulous seller who doesn't give a damn about the welfare of what he sells. I have been assessed for other animals and so cant see why you can't "evaluate" potential purchasers
 
Evaluate is fair but making a set of rules for prospective buyers is a bit unrealistic.
Not being a member of an association or intending to house bees in traditional hives is hardly the criteria for turning down a sale.
Don't be surprised if the prospective buyer laughs and tells you to keep them.
 
Would it be a good idea to let buyers open the colony and perform their own inspection, under supervision of course?

That sounds like a good idea, but I normally seal up the bees the night before, so that all the foragers are home.

I think I now understand why sellers asked so many questions when selling to me. There are apparently a lot of people who want bees... a lot are not properly prepared for the responsibility of having bees.

Thanks all
 
]what would make you refuse to sell bees to people, really?

Them not seeing the bees, the queen, the frames of brood in all stages and condition of combs, when they collect the bees of an evening as they are transferred to their hive for transport... if they think they are going to arrive and just pick up a box of bees ready packed for transport which they have never seen and inspected from me... then it's never going to happen.
 
Thanks, Hivemaker, that is really interesting. I had not really considered that way of doing things... because the (reputable) vendors I purchased from had not done it that way.

My sales are 'ad hoc', rather than being a business, but I will now have to have a think about how to make that possible for next season.
 
With all due respect, if one sold 100 sheep, cows or other livestock to someone with no prior knowledge of animal husbandry, then one could rightfully be criticised (and the buyer end up in Court on animal cruelty charges).
Why then should providing some 1000's of bees to a complete novice, with no understanding of bee biology, care, diseases, hive siting and so on be considered anything other than irresponsible?
 
I kept bees along with my father until I was 16 years old. I am now 70 years old and decided 3 months ago that I wished to become a beekeeper again. I thought I was doing the correct thing by contacting my local beekeeping association. However when I asked the association person I contacted if he could help me to get set up with a nuc or hive by perhaps pointing me in the right direction as to where I could get someone to supply me locally I got absolutely no help at all from him. Fortunatley with the help of the internet I was able to contact a bee farmer in Northern Ireland where I live. I talked to him by telephone and he told me to come and see him. I visited him next day and he suited me up we went into his apairy and opened a few hives and talked beekeeping he quickly seen that I knew what I was about and that night I drove home with a full hive of bees and all the equipment I needed to get started.
The point I am making here is that any experienced beekeeper should know within 15 minutes of speaking to a potential customer for a nuc or a hive wether that customer is suitable as someone who could immediatly take control as a beekeeper.
 
I might add to my above post that in the 54 years I have been without bees nothing has changed. Bees today are exactly the same wild animals they were 50 years ago. The only thing I have had to learn is about varroa and how to manage that. I now have two hives one with three supers on and I expect a decent harvest next month.
Associations are ok however they need to have a positive attitude and realise that their main goal should be to futher beekeeping and offer as much help to beekeepers as they can wether that beekeeper is a member of their association or not.
 
Dont be too hard on new entrants. I presume most us of got stuck in with a hive and learned loads in the first few seasons. We ALL continue to learn every year. Whether they start with the correct attitude or skill set, it still takes the experience of a few seasons to determine if they will make beeks or not.
Sell your bees , stop being a perent to adults , let them at it and hope for the best.
I stumbled into bees , and it took at least 2 seasons before the hook was sunk. Dont pre judge , let time be the decider.
 
I agree that you have to make a start with beekeeping somewhere but I also believe that people need to have some knowledge about how to care for and manage any bees they purchase. You do learn a lot about someone's understanding of beekeeping when you chat to them over the phone about purchase of a Nuc. I had such a conversation last night (Ta to BigLongDarren for the referral!!
I explained to the caller that I had a number of Nucs/colonies available and that they could inspect these for themselves and make a selection from them. I also noted that they should feel free to bring someone along to help them determine whether they will purchase from me and they would also see some other stocks which reflect the bees I am working with and raising queens from.
Personally, I will not sell a nuc unless I know that there is a Mated and Laying Queen present and who is showing a good laying pattern of sealed worker brood. I want prospective purchasers to see this for themselves, confirming that the Queen and BIAS is present etc. before transferring the bees into their own hive. With reference to my stated intention to sell only to members of beekeeping associations, I'm now flexible on that point as noted above. There is however a rationale behind seeking to "screen" prospective purchasers and this is partly selfish on my part. Associations provide a level of support and ongoing education that I as an amateur beekeeper with a full time job and a long daily commute cannot provide. I have seen how beekeeping friends have been plagued by calls from people who bought bees from them and despite having done courses, really had no concept of how to manage a hive or indeed what the bees were trying to do. This is very different from the person who has kept bees in the past or a beginner who clearly knows what they are about and has some sort of confirmed beekeeping support. I do touch base with those who purchase bees from me a month or so after the sale to see how bees and beekeeper are faring but I cannot be a nursemaid.

I was introduced to a lady who purchased her first Nuc in Northern Ireland some years ago. The Nuc threw up emergency queen cells prior to being transferred into a full hive. Now, you might think that she had killed or damaged the Queen during transit but that was not the case (as per the beekeeper and her then mentors). The emergency queen cells were spotted when transferring the Nuc to a full hive the evening after she collected it. The other thing that was spotted was a drone with a mark on his back appropriate to the year the Nuc was purchased........ Would an unschooled beginner have recognized what was happening in such a scenario?
 
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