Licensed or Generic Oxalic Acid - newish NBU advice!

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

the NBU has responded by changing their advice to beekeepers to recommend the use of licensed OA by Endolapi in Italy and Ecoxal in Spain.

Last year I spoke to an Inspector, and he told me he would continue using generic OA, but he would not list it on his medical record, in fear if they were going to make an example of someone, it would be a Bee Inspector!

Comments?

einsteinagogo said:

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

the NBU has responded by changing their advice to beekeepers to recommend the use of licensed OA by Endolapi in Italy and Ecoxal in Spain.

Last year I spoke to an Inspector, and he told me he would continue using generic OA, but he would not list it on his medical record, in fear if they were going to make an example of someone, it would be a Bee Inspector!

Comments?

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The BBKA leaflet now says the same,

The Thorne's Trickle2 *bottles* make for a pretty straightforward way to dispense the Oxalic syrup. (Yes, you could refill them! Or buy the empty bottles for a quid each.)

However, the thing that needs to be said (or anyway, I think it does!) is that its a bit too early to be buying ready-to-use Oxalic syrup.
After the acid is mixed with the syrup, it has a VERY short shelf-life. Reason being the formation of bee-poisonous stuff called HMF.
Don't buy (or make) Oxalic syrup early, or be tempted to 'stock up' … !

I made this mistake last year. I bought a ready-made solution in the Autumn and by New Year it was looking decidedly green so I did not treat and threw the stuff away. Now this year I have bought some Oxalic crystals and intend to make up fresh solution for me and my neighbour. I don't have the formula at the moment but I'm assuming I will find something on this forum when the time comes.

einsteinagogo said:

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

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Buy some direct from Thornes, it is still listed in their catalogue, so order from that.

MuswellMetro said:

The BBKA leaflet now says the same,

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How to make a cheap common long shelf life substance into a gravy train by making it in a short shelf life and restricted availability product and then covering it with regulations, paperwork and Danger and toxic stickers.

And from an association that is suppose to represent what is generally a low cost hobby of pensioners

pathetic or more "sponsorship" for the BBKA?


p.s. quotation marks here are for ironic purposes

Griffo said:

I don't have the formula at the moment but I'm assuming I will find something on this forum when the time comes.

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Look on the CWJ website - it has the recipe on the OA order page

einsteinagogo said:

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

the NBU has responded by changing their advice to beekeepers to recommend the use of licensed OA by Endolapi in Italy and Ecoxal in Spain.

Last year I spoke to an Inspector, and he told me he would continue using generic OA, but he would not list it on his medical record, in fear if they were going to make an example of someone, it would be a Bee Inspector!

Comments?

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Probably something to do with the Veterinary Medicines Regulations (VMR) 2013 http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?pageid=353

BeeJoyful said:

Probably something to do with the Veterinary Medicines Regulations (VMR) 2013 http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?pageid=353

Currently, there are no UK registered oxalic acid treatments for honey bees. However, beekeepers are able to apply for EU approved medicines which are available in EU Member States through a Special Import Certificate (SIC). There are a two registered oxalic acid medicines available to beekeepers and a list of products available under this scheme can be found here.

Api-Bioxal is a registered oxalic acid treatment in Italy and Ecoxal is a registered oxalic acid treatment in Spain. These are both available under the scheme and you can either ask your local vet whether they take part in the scheme or you can buy Api - Bioxal directly from Bee Vet.​

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exactly ... aspirin is banned you can only buy Anadin & Disprin

derekm said:

exactly ... aspirin is banned you can only buy Anadin & Disprin

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It's the made up world we live in. They need their taxes so they can spend billions bombing poor Afghan shepherds to show unity with the bosses over the pond, while moaning like fug about paying a fraction to our European neighbours (to facilitate greater equality) according to previously agreed formulas.
Be a rebel and use generic stuff if it's cheaper, but don't let them catch you writing it in your medicines record book or they'll impound your honey and send your family to the gulag.

mbc said:

It's the made up world we live in. They need their taxes so they can spend billions bombing poor Afghan shepherds to show unity with the bosses over the pond, while moaning like fug about paying a fraction to our European neighbours (to facilitate greater equality) according to previously agreed formulas.
Be a rebel and use generic stuff if it's cheaper, but don't let them catch you writing it in your medicines record book or they'll impound your honey and send your family to the gulag.

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Oh that book with blank pages, that nobody looks at
or does the bee inspector ask to see it?

derekm said:

Oh that book with blank pages, that nobody looks at
or does the bee inspector ask to see it?

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Treatment free since time immemorial, honest Guv!

Warning logic alert:
Bee pickup dusts, any dust that is in the environment and stick it in the hive and into the honey. So much so that honey has been proposed an a environmental monitoring tool for environmental toxins such as heavy metals i.e. Lead, Cadmium, insecticides, herbicides etc
(something to think about with the next spoon of honey)

So you can really see how important that paperwork is in keeping the honey pure ... right?

Along the same lines, petrol should not be recommended or used to kill bees. It has no approval as an apicide.

derekm said:

Oh that book with blank pages, that nobody looks at
or does the bee inspector ask to see it?

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There was an outbreak of EFB in my area this year and the SBI and I were talking about this while he looked through the colonies. He said he had a asked a few people and nobody kept any records. He didn't do anything about it though.

After the acid is mixed with the syrup, it has a VERY short shelf-life. Reason being the formation of bee-poisonous stuff called HMF.

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The research paper I read showed that HMF formation is temperature dependent. If you keep your solution cool or 'even in the fridge' it will be OK for several months.
Alec

einsteinagogo said:

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

the NBU has responded by changing their advice to beekeepers to recommend the use of licensed OA by Endolapi in Italy and Ecoxal in Spain...

Click to expand...

Hmm. Previous NBU guidance, certainly verbal from RBI but I think previous versions of NBU leaflets that I don't have here mentioned Oxuvar the Swiss product by Biovet AG. Made outside the EU, but as I recall registered in some EU states. The BBKA leaflet copied above still mentions it. If it has dropped off the NBU list that suggests they may have let registration lapse. It is still listed for sale from several suppliers, although expensive for what it is. Perhaps more an indication of how much effort and cash it takes to maintain registration than anything else. .

I suspect the Trickle2 stocking might have more to do with the short shelf life than approval of alternatives. Thornes may not want agents to hold stocks past sell by dates but will supply direct.

Most of the "official" advice (NBU, BBKA and major suppliers) seems to be concerned with two potential problems. First, the average beekeeper can't weigh and mix accurately. Second, the final solution doesn't keep at room temperature and it might not be ideal keeping it in a family fridge. If any association wanted to supply members, it wouldn't be hard to make up kits following the Oxuvar route; a prepared oxalic solution plus pre weighed sugar (plus a syringe maybe). Solves both the weighing problem and expiry problem.

derekm said:

Oh that book with blank pages, that nobody looks at
or does the bee inspector ask to see it?

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Julian Parker the new RBI for SE asked to see one of our members VMD records

BeeJoyful said:

Probably something to do with the Veterinary Medicines Regulations (VMR) 2013 http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?pageid=353

Currently, there are no UK registered oxalic acid treatments for honey bees. However, beekeepers are able to apply for EU approved medicines which are available in EU Member States through a Special Import Certificate (SIC). There are a two registered oxalic acid medicines available to beekeepers and a list of products available under this scheme can be found here.

Api-Bioxal is a registered oxalic acid treatment in Italy and Ecoxal is a registered oxalic acid treatment in Spain. These are both available under the scheme and you can either ask your local vet whether they take part in the scheme or you can buy Api - Bioxal directly from Bee Vet.​

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why dont we all club together and buy one SMALL bottle of Api-Bioxal and we all then use that batch and expiry date on our VMD ( oh dear i lost the receipt) and make our own solution,or is that illegal LOL

MuswellMetro said:

why dont we all club together and buy one SMALL bottle of Api-Bioxal and we all then use that batch and expiry date on our VMD ( oh dear i lost the receipt) and make our own solution,or is that illegal LOL

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Falsifying records, not such a good idea, especially if the **** hits the fan and something turns up in your honey. Best to be TF imho