Weak colony - what to do?

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Haywards

New Bee
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
39
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Location
Glossop
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
6
I'm a back garden beekeeper in my first spring with bees. I have 3 colonies; 2 are strong with lots of active bees but the other has only few bees and signs of nosema/dysentery with some poo around the entrance - I have not tested the dead bees. I have not been into the hive yet; we had snow here yesterday! This new queen was the product of a late swarm and emerged 4/5 Sept last year. The colony worked much later than the other 2 bringing in late balsam, heather and ivy. The bees were consequently late to appear this spring. I only want 2 colonies so as to minimise nuisance to neighbours. I did intend to give the colony to a friend who is starting up this year but clearly I cannot pass on this colony. So, what are my options?
 
Not much you can do...Let nature take its course and sadly you will probably end up with the required two hives.
 
Dishmop said:
Not much you can do...Let nature take its course and sadly you will probably end up with the required two hives.
Click to expand...
Thanks for confirming what I already suspected. I will leave them to it with no supplementary feeding. I'll open up when the time is right and inspect. Then if they do not survive I'll trash the comb and disinfect the whole hive. If they do survive - then I have another problem.
 
Then you can start worrying about swarms........

and in June you will have 4 hives.
 
There are things you could do, if you so chose.

Feeding with emulsified thymol syrup might help. Some would suggest that a weak colony must be fed using a 'contact' (upside down bucket) feeder - so that the food is accessible from the warmth of the brood box. You could take it a step further by spraying the syrup onto the frames, so that the bees would be dealing with it immediately.

The 'official' advice would be to do a dummied-down Bailey comb change - onto fumigated drawn comb (NOT foundation), feeding all the while (with a contact feeder!) Newly, the possibility exists of doing this in a 'double-decker' (plus top feeder) Paynes poly nuc, the better insulation (and drier environment?) further helping the colony's chances.
If they really are a small lot, you could do the change onto a drawn super, and sort them out later, once they are off their (almost certainly) dirty and infected comb.
Don't forget to scorch out the old box, floor and coverboard once the bees are out of it.
 
I have not been into the hive yet;-

So all the replies are guesses on what you might find?

My advice is find out, then decide on what to do, or post your findings for suggestions.
 
If you only want 2 colonies, why not move this problem 3rd hive to your friend's garden now (remember 3 mi rule) and jointly sort out the problem there?

The longer it's with you, the more flying bees and the bigger problem with moving.
 
queen was the product of a late swarm and emerged 4/5 Sept last year
Click to expand...

Would she have mated in time to produce winter bees?
 
itma said:
There are things you could do, if you so chose.

I want this colony to survive since it was my carelessness that caused the swarm in the first place. So, given this colony's infections can it ever be a fully viable? If it can then I will treat and pass on later in the summer.

Feeding with emulsified thymol syrup might help. Some would suggest that a weak colony must be fed using a 'contact' (upside down bucket) feeder - so that the food is accessible from the warmth of the brood box. You could take it a step further by spraying the syrup onto the frames, so that the bees would be dealing with it immediately.

The 'official' advice would be to do a dummied-down Bailey comb change - onto fumigated drawn comb (NOT foundation), feeding all the while (with a contact feeder!) Newly, the possibility exists of doing this in a 'double-decker' (plus top feeder) Paynes poly nuc, the better insulation (and drier environment?) further helping the colony's chances.

I have no spare drawn brood comb.

If they really are a small lot, you could do the change onto a drawn super, and sort them out later, once they are off their (almost certainly) dirty and infected comb.

As to the size, I presume the colony to be small and will only tell when I open up. There appears be only odd bees flying compared to the large numbers of the other colonies. Yesterday there were fresh poo blobs with the odd bee bringing back pollen

Don't forget to scorch out the old box, floor and coverboard once the bees are out of it.
Click to expand...

So, could I treat with thy/syrup, then when it is warmer shake the bees into poly nuc with foundation , continue to feed and hope for the best. Will the natural wastage and life cycle rid the colony of infection?
 
If there are any bees still infected with spores when you shake them onto foundation there is a risk that they defaecate on the foundation leaving spores to start the infection cycle next autumn/ winter. Personally I don't think it worthwhile wasting time and effort on weak nosemic colonies.
 
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Dishmop said:
Then you can start worrying about swarms........

and in June you will have 4 hives.
Click to expand...
I have spent the winter reading on swarm management and have prepared plenty of spare kit. I know what I want to do in my garden situation. Dealing with the swarm last year gave me insight into what to expect and the consequences. However, I am fully aware of my novice status and I can't possible hope to avoid other problems.
 
Haywards said:
So, could I treat with thy/syrup, then when it is warmer shake the bees into poly nuc with foundation , continue to feed and hope for the best. Will the natural wastage and life cycle rid the colony of infection?
Click to expand...

Weak colonies with few young bees aren't able to draw wax effectively.
Hence the pointers towards using drawn comb.

If you don't even have any shallow frames drawn, then you might find that when you inspect the other (healthy) colonies, you may be able to pinch a drawn frame or two with some stores from them.



The basic 'official' idea for 'treatment' of dysentery/nosema is to get the bees off dirty infected comb, away from contaminated stores, and into warmer drier quarters.
Nosema apis is usually encountered at the end of winter and can 'disappear' of its own by summer.
There is another school of thought that nosema-susceptipility is genetic, and that those genes should be eliminated by requeening (but not into a 'messy' hive!)

If using thymol, it would seem worthwhile to ensure that it is properly emulsified (eg with Lecithin). This should ensure it gets into the bees rather than merely floating on the top of the syrup in the feeder.
 
masterBK said:
If there are any bees still infected with spores when you shake them onto foundation there is a risk that they defaecate on the foundation leaving spores to start the infection cycle next autumn/ winter. Personally I don't it worthwhile wasting time and effort on weak nosemic colonies.
Click to expand...

So, do I kill them off and clean up? Or, leave them to naturally die off, with the risk they become stronger and live and infect my other colonies?
 
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