Help! Wild Honey headache!

Dishmop said:

At the moment it looks to me that sadly the majority of hives that have failed this winter were in fact treated.

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I supposed that those treated hives were yours.

So you have in UK allready results about winterlosses from 2014/15.
I tried to find them from google.

Finman said:

I supposed that those treated hives were yours.

So you have in UK allready results about winterlosses from 2014/15.
I tried to find them from google.

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Therefore ladies and gentleman we have evidence that Finman appears to have no ability to comprehend what is being said, and with reference to 2014/15 reports seems to have forgotten that elsewhere on this forum he has been replying to a thread about winter loses.
Now we wait so see what edits he does to his last post.

dishmop said:

therefore ladies and gentleman we have evidence that finman appears to have no ability to comprehend what is being said, and with reference to 2014/15 reports seems to have forgotten that elsewhere on this forum he has been replying to a thread about winter loses.
now we wait so see what edits he does to his last post.

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Good grief!

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Finman said:

And you say that discussion is "knowledge". Amen.

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Not that I remember. Must have been somebody on Google.

I have told you at least three time today that I havent lost any hives but still you write I supposed that those treated hives were yours.


people arent fooled by your editing antics. Especially when they have received an email from the forum with what you have written.

Finman said:

Good grief!

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another fellow countyman that resides under a rickety wooden bridge?

Thanks for that. The hive has been in Dad's garden for over a year, and I'm not sure when the bees moved in...sometime last summer. The "hive" is actually a Brood Box (national) and about 4 or 5 super, but completely "hollow" - i.e. no frames etc.
I nderstand I can put a Brood Box on top, with foundation, then isolate it once the Queen is found up there. I would then let the brood in the upper chamber hatch naturally, if I understand correctly.

What should I then do with what I presume will be a huge shapeless blob of comb? Is there any way of extracting any honey from it, or do i just hack it out?

nealeholl said:

Thanks for that. The hive has been in Dad's garden for over a year, and I'm not sure when the bees moved in...sometime last summer. The "hive" is actually a Brood Box (national) and about 4 or 5 super, but completely "hollow" - i.e. no frames etc.
I nderstand I can put a Brood Box on top, with foundation, then isolate it once the Queen is found up there. I would then let the brood in the upper chamber hatch naturally, if I understand correctly.

What should I then do with what I presume will be a huge shapeless blob of comb? Is there any way of extracting any honey from it, or do i just hack it out?

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You can crush it to get honey out.


The comb not the hive.

Without frames you are going to have more of a problem as the comb will be attached to the underside of the crownboard, or roof if there was no crownboard in, and probably to the sides of one or more supers too.
No doubt someone has had to tackle a similar situation and can advise a better solution than just cutting out and tying in to frames?

Rich

Rich0909 said:

No doubt someone has had to tackle a similar situation and can advise a better solution than just cutting out and tying in to frames?

Rich

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Wild comb lovers think that natural combs are something better than foundation combs. But it is not long time ago when natural combs were only way to nurse honeybees.

But movable frames, foundation and wires are really big innovations

** you can learn about bees' life when you can look inside the hive

- bee breeding... You can take a queen away and change it
- you may make an artificial swarm and stop swarms to fly away.
- clip the queens wing
- you may multiply good queens (thousands)

* using Foundation you save 8 kg honey per harvested langstroth box when you do not destroy combs and you use recycled wax to make foundations.

* with wire you save combs when they will not breake
* if you have much hive, you must migrate them. Natural combs do not stand transport and moving top different pastures.

* with frames it is easy to make nucs and join colonies and split them.


- with moving frames you may inspect hives and see diseases

- you may inspect, what are food stores and so on.

Rich0909 said:

Without frames you are going to have more of a problem as the comb will be attached to the underside of the crownboard, or roof if there was no crownboard in, and probably to the sides of one or more supers too.
No doubt someone has had to tackle a similar situation and can advise a better solution than just cutting out and tying in to frames?

Rich

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Better to do the following when it is a bit warmer but before they get to pile a load of stores in;
Take the whole lot and turn upside down so that the crown board with comb attached becomes the floor - removing any boxes that are not filled with comb - or not filled with comb with brood - you may be able to trim off all the empty comb from the original 'bottom' of the nest. Put a new brood box with frames of foundation/drawn comb on top of the whole lot then cap it off with a feeder board and feeder with 1:1 syrup. the bees won't be long in migrating up to the new frames especially if there isn't that much brood. The comb being upside down won't bother the bees - they have probably endured worse in the wild and will probably encourage them to move to the new frames.
I haven't done this but have read of it being done (Tom Seeley for one) but this is what I would do in this situation

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And it is better to ask an experienced beekeeper to help in that moving job.
The happening may become a catastrophe if bees get angry.

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That seems a really sensible way to deal with it. Do you happen to know how many people the manoeuvre really needs. Considering the weight involved it will need at least two with the hive being strapped together before attempting to turn it.

A trolley of some sort would help...
Wheel barrow not a good idea unless its a 2 wheel one.

I use a four wheel dolley which I aquired from a supermarket.

How does that help with turning the hive upside down?

Margaret Elisabeth said:

How does that help with turning the hive upside down?

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Sorry. I didnt read it properly which is common on most forums. I thought you were asking about how to move it.

Shouldnt take too much thought about how to turn it upside down though. Should it?

Just for the record, I love the idea of turning the bb upside down, never would have thought of doing that... Brilliant.
E

jenkinsbrynmair said:

Better to do the following when it is a bit warmer but before they get to pile a load of stores in;
Take the whole lot and turn upside down so that the crown board with comb attached becomes the floor - removing any boxes that are not filled with comb - or not filled with comb with brood - you may be able to trim off all the empty comb from the original 'bottom' of the nest. Put a new brood box with frames of foundation/drawn comb on top of the whole lot then cap it off with a feeder board and feeder with 1:1 syrup. the bees won't be long in migrating up to the new frames especially if there isn't that much brood. The comb being upside down won't bother the bees - they have probably endured worse in the wild and will probably encourage them to move to the new frames.
I haven't done this but have read of it being done (Tom Seeley for one) but this is what I would do in this situation

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Good plan but it being a bb and 4—5 supers you would probably need to screw the whole lot together like a tower and hope all the comb doesn't collapse when you turn it over - probably with the help of a few others.

Could you not put a floor and a box (or two depending on how many bees you think there are) with frames and foundation next to it. Put a clearer board on top. With some strong friends move the whole tower gently on top of it. The bees will have no choice once they pass through the board and should soon build comb. Can of course also lift the tower and slide the rest underneath, whichever is easiest.

Not sure if the queen will follow so you may need a new queen or can even get one reared from a frame of eggs if you can get hold of one.

Good plan from JBM. One I'll remember. Can I also say (while Dishmop and Finman get on with killing one another..) congratulations in managing to get some bees to fill your empty box. There are many a keeper on here who have tried many a time to do just that by design and failed. Good luck!

Margaret Elisabeth said:

That seems a really sensible way to deal with it. Do you happen to know how many people the manoeuvre really needs.

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It should only take two to turn a BB and maybe one shallow over (you could probably 'manage' alone but it would be an awkward manoeuvre and fraught with difficulty.

Bosleeu said:

Good plan but it being a bb and 4—5 supers you would probably need to screw the whole lot together like a tower and hope all the comb doesn't collapse when you turn it over - probably with the help of a few others.

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Let's think this through - OP knows the stack has been colonised but has no idea of the size of the colony as he has yet to open up. I would, with the assistance of another beekeeper:
first loosen the crownboard and see how easy it is to lift - if I'm very lucky it will come up with a brood box size colony on comb attached to it, thus, assuming the boxes have been stacked deeps on the bottom shallows on top we know we only need 2 or three shallows for the 'flip' if the 'nest' is deeper well a mater of trial and error (only have to lift the box sufficiently to peep in and find the bottom of the nest)to establish the size of box we need. As I said earlier if a lot of the bottom comb is empty of stores and brood it can be removed to make the nest smaller.
So let's say that the whole shebang takes up three shallows. with your assistant lift the whole lot up (without flipping) and place onto another solid crownboard/piece of ply or whatever which is sat on a hivestrap.
all you have to do then is cich it all up, flip it over onto a slightly raised surface/floor and Bob's your auntie as the gender reassignment specialist would say.
Undo strap use a shallow eke to create an alternative entrance near the top, slap on new BB and frames, feeder board and feeder, sit back and wait.

jenkinsbrynmair said:

The comb being upside down won't bother the bees - they have probably endured worse in the wild and will probably encourage them to move to the new frames.
I haven't done this but have read of it being done (Tom Seeley for one) but this is what I would do in this situation

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I recall DerekM turning some frames through 90 degrees to fit them into a fake tree nest. The brood survived.

The only thing I would advise caution is when the crown board is lifted, because even slightly old comb can fall away and without knowing where the queen is ....

I wonder, and it might mean a two-person job, but would it be better to lift the brood box off the floor - leave the crown board in place, tape it in situ if necessary - and turn the whole box upside down and place it back onto the floor. Put new brood box. They can use any feeder hole in the crown board as an entrance.

Would it work? (Or is what JBM suggested, and I've misread?)