Two Queens!!

As it was so mild and sunny I decided to have a look in my hives and before anyone moans it was T shirt weather!!
Anyway, after moving end of last year and siting the bees in their new location just before, they were a bit neglected. I just left them with loads of stores and let them get on with it. All three hives seem fine although one half the amount of bees than other two. Brood in two hives, eggs only in the smallest.
One hive (largest) was very mouldy down one side and a few frames mouldy also. Sorted them all out and a quick tidy up. Wasn't planning on that but they were in a mess. Lots of solid/crystallised honey that they seem to be ignoring
I saw all the queens but was amazed to find one hive with an un marked queen..... then right next to her was my last years clipped Buckfast queen!
Full of BIAS and both queens seem happy together. Wasn't sure what to do so just closed up and left them to it. They have obviously gone through the late summer/autumn and winter together so how usual is this? What should I do or expect next time I go in?

steve56616 said:

They have obviously gone through the late summer/autumn and winter together so how usual is this? What should I do or expect next time I go in?

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Probably more usual than you think - people just spot the marked queen and then stop looking when her daughter may well be on the same frame. Some call it 'perfect supersedure' once they get their laying going one day your marked queen will be no more and the unmarked will take over the hive.
Good trait to have in a colony - with two queens they go into the winter stronger and build up quicker in the spring.

How brilliant is that...2 Queens...wish I had seen it too. How old is your marked queen?

-one day your marked queen will be no more and the unmarked will take over the hive.

The usual outcome, but the bees will choose the best queen to remain.

On the subject of the weak colony, the queen's lay-rate may well be limited by the availabe workforce. May benefit from some beekeeper input before they start to dwindle or struggle to expand.

The weaker colony was from a swarm I collected last june/july. Was from a row of houses that have had bees in there chimneys for many years so I was told.
They are a bit of an experiment really, just to see how they get on. They were slow starting and no intention of swarming like my others. Also very peaceful. They are very dark bees with no lines. Queen is Black!

Regarding the two queens. I remember now just before I moved the hive in early August there was a new queen and I remember being disappointed my 2014 Buckfast had gone. Well seems she didn't go after all

I'd be tempted to make up a nuc with the original queen now, before she 'vanishes'.

I'd be tempted to leave well alone - it's definitely the wrong time of year to be splitting the brood and hoping both sides will be OK when the whole colony is struggling hard to recover from wintering. And if the bees are unhappy with the queen (otherwise why supersede) then do you really want to risk everything for the chance of keeping her?

I think I will leave them to it. They know what there doing more than I do. If there happy then that's fine. They have been together 8 or 9 months so far. Will split when the time comes if they are both still there.

jenkinsbrynmair said:

I'd be tempted to leave well alone - it's definitely the wrong time of year to be splitting the brood and hoping both sides will be OK when the whole colony is struggling hard to recover from wintering. And if the bees are unhappy with the queen (otherwise why supersede) then do you really want to risk everything for the chance of keeping her?

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Yes, I should have been clearer when I said before she 'vanishes'. Now is definitely too soon!

steve56616 said:

The weaker colony was from a swarm I collected last june/july. Was from a row of houses that have had bees in there chimneys for many years so I was told.
They are a bit of an experiment really, just to see how they get on. They were slow starting and no intention of swarming like my others. Also very peaceful. They are very dark bees with no lines. Queen is Black!

Regarding the two queens. I remember now just before I moved the hive in early August there was a new queen and I remember being disappointed my 2014 Buckfast had gone. Well seems she didn't go after all

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Possibly the queen is a native black bee ( Apis mellifera mellifera )

2 queens... low swarming tendency.. very dark with no ( yellow) lines...

all hell may break loose if they go for a 1st cross with anything with a kiss of Carnolian!

Yeghes da

oliver90owner said:

-one day your marked queen will be no more and the unmarked will take over the hive.

The usual outcome, but the bees will choose the best queen to remain.

On the subject of the weak colony, the queen's lay-rate may well be limited by the availabe workforce. May benefit from some beekeeper input before they start to dwindle or struggle to expand.

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Sadly sometimes they chose the wrong queen - the unmarked virgin.

icanhopit said:

Possibly the queen is a native black bee ( Apis mellifera mellifera )

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either that or she's still covered in soot!

jenkinsbrynmair said:

either that or she's still covered in soot!

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New treatment for Varroa!!




Yeghes da

jenkinsbrynmair said:

either that or she's still covered in soot!

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icanhopit said:

New treatment for Varroa!!




Yeghes da

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Less of a waste of time than sprinkling them with magic fairy dust(better known as icing sugar)

[QUOTE

all hell may break loose if they go for a 1st cross with anything with a kiss of Carnolian!

Yeghes da[/QUOTE]

Why?

Sadly sometimes they chose the wrong queen - the unmarked virgin.-

Doubtful! Sadly they may have to choose the better of two drone layers. It happens, no doubt. After all, they were not superceding for no good reason? I give the bees more credit for their attempts at survival than them simply making a wrong choice in a matter of such importance. I am a strong believer of 'bees know best'.

RAB

Hi Steve,
Enjoy the moment and how observant of you to notice her! I have been told by a young man, a beek for 30 years and his father before him, that late supercedure was common and does not indicate that there is something wrong with the old queen. However, early- in-the-season supercedure indicates that there is something wrong with the queen and she should not be bred from i.e. requeen from other source. Let's have a pick of your AMM? in due course.

steve56616 said:

[QUOTE

all hell may break loose if they go for a 1st cross with anything with a kiss of Carnolian!

Yeghes da

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Why?[/QUOTE]

C & M groups are not known as a good tempered hybrid.... but can produce a lot of honey!!!
C & L groups being both originating from the Mediterranean seem to display hybrid vigor, but soon lost... hence the need to requeen with queens from a breeder every season.

IMOLE...

Yeghes da

icanhopit said:

all hell may break loose if they go for a 1st cross with anything with a kiss of Carnolian!

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May, but may with any bees, pure or crossed, but i seem to remember ITLD who has a lot of both, saying on here he has very few problems regards AMM Carnie crosses, with regards aggression.

Hivemaker. said:

May, but may with any bees, pure or crossed, but i seem to remember ITLD who has a lot of both, saying on here he has very few problems regards AMM Carnie crosses, with regards aggression.

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I sometimes wonder if there is an aggression gene?
Possibly recessive.............

Yeghes da