other beekeepers dead outs

Hopefuly all my top insulated beehives now appear to be through winter, without any losses but fingers crossed still for the next few weeks

however i get called out by ex beginners and members to their problems and dead outs have been quite high

i have seen the following deads this winter ,

1. small travel nuc with correx roof and sides, no insualtion, isolation starving
2. 14x12, nosemetic on 6 year old comb, trapped below QE with stores stil in super above
3. a nuc with two full apiguard tubs put on at same time in september
4. another trapped below QE with 2 full super above ,they put suppers on in May then fed with 2 gallons of ambrosia in september
5. no insulation , vented top and bottom on brood and half and queen did not cross bee space gap to stores
6. three out of five 14x12, lots of ivy stores, no insulation open OMF, openFeed holes and matchsticks but hives not level (trapped in one corner)
7. gravel tray roof , no insualtion, no ventalation ,omf board in (mouldy inside, crown board damp)

Yes .... I'm sure we will see more of this as spring really dawns, I suspect that there will be more losses than are ever admitted to.

The tragic thing is that most of the things you describe have, in isolation, been 'recommended' procedures. The main problem is that people 'mix and match' different ways of doing things and that's when the problems start.

Interesting there are several dead-outs with queen excluders. The pattern of doors-and-windows open ventillation seems to be there too. AND you're not in the coldest part of the country.

I personally have never had a problem with Ivy honey. (Well it doesn't taste brilliant for me but the bees have always been OK with it).

All my colonies are alive (not all checked) with open floors and insulation on top.

Correx travelling box over winter: Madness in my view.

MM - did you take pictures?

would make a great local association talk.

That was an interesting post, but

That was an interesting post, but what is a gravel tray roof.
It sounds technical but is it simply a tray of gravel on the roof?

Is this a Darwinian list?

Weeell, for starters the nuc with a huge dose of thymol might not have made it to winter! But, hey ho, twice (or maybe four times) the amount of medication should do the job twice a quick or twice as well - err, scratches head!

They must have been reading (and believing) the beginner's section!

Jack Straw said:

That was an interesting post, but what is a gravel tray roof.
It sounds technical but is it simply a tray of gravel on the roof?

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I suspect this would be a 18" square plastic horticultural gravel tray, inverted and forming a waterproof roof.

Probably quite effective in terms of being waterproof but not much insulation value - would need at least 50mm of celotex under it to help keep heat in the hive.

CVB

"what is a gravel tray roof"

presume plastic greenhouse type tray - used to hold gravel to stand pots on.

I personally have never had a problem with Ivy honey. (Well it doesn't taste brilliant for me but the bees have always been OK with it).

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Mine have never had problems with ivy honey.
I've always assumed that it got mixed with the late balsam which kept it "runny"?
Alec

MuswellMetro said:

Hopefuly all my top insulated beehives now appear to be through winter, without any losses but fingers crossed still for the next few weeks

however i get called out by ex beginners and members to their problems and dead outs have been quite high

i have seen the following deads this winter ,

1. small travel nuc with correx roof and sides, no insualtion, isolation starving
2. 14x12, nosemetic on 6 year old comb, trapped below QE with stores stil in super above
3. a nuc with two full apiguard tubs put on at same time in september
4. another trapped below QE with 2 full super above ,they put suppers on in May then fed with 2 gallons of ambrosia in september
5. no insulation , vented top and bottom on brood and half and queen did not cross bee space gap to stores
6. three out of five 14x12, lots of ivy stores, no insulation open OMF, openFeed holes and matchsticks but hives not level (trapped in one corner)
7. gravel tray roof , no insualtion, no ventalation ,omf board in (mouldy inside, crown board damp)

Click to expand...

None of these beekeepers (if that's the right description) seem to be familiar with the expertise freely available on this forum.

charlievictorbravo said:

I suspect this would be a 18" square plastic horticultural gravel tray, inverted and forming a waterproof roof.

Click to expand...

This is a useful temporary bodge when you run out of hives during the swarming season, but no way to go into winter.




I believe the problem with the "ivy honey" hives wasn't being said to be the Ivy - rather that the hives were fully ventilated (yes, matchsticks!), not level, and the cluster was so cold that it was unable to migrate to where the plentiful ivy stores were, just a few frames away.



Apart from the "I treat for varroa only with Icing Sugar, and then only if necessary" case, I think that this little list covers most of the common winter-failing stupidities.
It ain't rocket science, but sadly that doesn't mean that one can reliably get away with daftness.

So what can be done about such situations? Folk seem to ve keeping bees without the skills to do so - leading to their death (and possibly wider disease issues). Should all beekeepers be registered? Should some form of training be mandatory?

Personally, I think every new beekeeper should have to pass something similar to the BBKA's Basic Assessment. That level of knowledge should be a requirement.

clv101 said:

Personally, I think every new beekeeper should have to pass something similar to the BBKA's Basic Assessment.

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And what difference would a bit of paper do? it seems that thereare loads of people around with bundles of little bits of paper but it's obvious from some of the comments on here that they still don't have a scooby about beekeeping.

Agreed, a bit of paper is no guarantee a QE won't be left on. But it makes it more likely someone will have been told or read that it shouldn't.

clv101 said:

So what can be done about such situations? Folk seem to ve keeping bees without the skills to do so - leading to their death (and possibly wider disease issues). Should all beekeepers be registered? Should some form of training be mandatory?

Personally, I think every new beekeeper should have to pass something similar to the BBKA's Basic Assessment. That level of knowledge should be a requirement.

Click to expand...

That solution just leads to creating a "training" industry and introduces a very significant additional cost. Shortly after the creation someone will think it's important that everyone is required to be reassessed after a few years, again at a cost to the beekeeper.
Of course the unregistered keepers will ignore the rules, leaving those who follow them to bear the costs.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

What it the alternative? You could say exactly the same about driving? Why bother with a driving licence, a test etc. It just creates a costly training industry and the bad guys will just ignore it anyway.

Maybe the problem isn't that big a deal? Is the situation getter better or worse?

Both these have overwintered just as you see them here.

Piece of Kingspan and ply on the brood box.

Dishmop said:

Both these have overwintered just as you see them here.

Piece of Kingspan and ply on the brood box.

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Nice looking last you have there - too good to be left out in all weathers.

clv101 said:

So what can be done about such situations? Folk seem to ve keeping bees without the skills to do so - leading to their death (and possibly wider disease issues). Should all beekeepers be registered? Should some form of training be mandatory?

Personally, I think every new beekeeper should have to pass something similar to the BBKA's Basic Assessment. That level of knowledge should be a requirement.

Click to expand...

Ah! You mean along the lines of the driving test so that everybody drives properly and safely?