Brood enlargening downward

Finman said:

My target is July and I work for that.

Click to expand...

What is your main flow from Finman?
We are so concerned here to get the OSR honey out of the hive before it granulates that we can't leave it in the box until the end of the season.

Finman said:

Like head line says, you may enlarge your hive downwards, you help bees to keep their brood hive warm.

Click to expand...

If you get an arc of pollen at the top of the brood nest and a little honey above that, do you not add boxes above for honey too?
I like your idea of expanding downwards for the brood, but, I am concerned that they would just fill it with fresh nectar without anywhere above the nest to put it. That is what would happen when the OSR nectar flow starts here.

I would guess if you have nectar coming in you still need to super as normal and as you say the honey above the brood should stop the queen moving up especially if she has room to go down with clear access. I am going to try this at the weekend thanks again Finman.

B+. said:

If you get an arc of pollen at the top of the brood nest and a little honey above that, do you not add boxes above brood box.

Click to expand...

Of course I do if hive is big, like 3 boxes. I have talked now about first enlargening of brood hive. Question is, how do you ensure that brood hive keep its heat in all conditions.

It I catastrophe when you add 100% more space to the hive.

I can see that bees store nectar I lower box, what they get in. It is not needed upstairs, because it steal heat from brood. When colony grows rapidly, it arranges it's stores and brood according their instincts.

But you are so mad in Britain to play with one brood box, excluder and mesh floor, that you do not think, how to build up strong colony in spring.

Finman said:

But you are so mad in Britain to play with one brood box, excluder and mesh floor, that you do not think, how to build up strong colony in spring.

Click to expand...

It is true that our conditions are very different to yours, and this forces us to adopt different management practices but I am interested in what you have to say to see if they would work here.
My own colonies are in 4 Langstroth deep boxes at the moment.

B+. said:

It is true that our conditions are very different to yours, and this forces us to adopt different management practices but I am interested .

Click to expand...

But bees are the same. They need same temperature in their brood box and they forage in same temperature. Some think that they forage even in rain, but they bring drinking water to larva feeding.

Brood cycle is same too. Guys speak that hive's build up has been fast and it I still in one box. What does it mean. Small Colony cannot grow fast because it can feed and warm up only certain amount of brood.

There are too strange habits like Bailey combs exchange and splitting the hive when I try to grow over one box.

From all these I have drawn a conclusion that good spring build up is not appreciated in UK beekeeping.

B+. said:

I'd gladly swap your nectar flows for ours Finman. OSR may be earlier but its horrible stuff to extract if it granulates

Click to expand...

I have had hives in 3 springs on autumn OSR. I noticed that they are not able to forage nectar if weather is windy and temps under 20C. Bees flied vigorously but returned to hive without load. I had a good hive on balance. Field was 12 hectares and I bloomed 5 weeks.

Mostly hives get 15 kg honey from dandelion, but when it comes a bad rainy week, strongly growing hive will eate half from that crop.

From all these I have drawn a conclusion that good spring build up is not appreciated in UK beekeeping.

Click to expand...

Your method of increasing spring build up is by adding more boxes underneath existing brood box? Elsewhere you tell us no good adding more boxes because bees cannot keep it warm enough for new brood.. So lets say that at end of season when you have taken all thier frames of honey from food boxes and you are left with three boxes of brood..........How do you decrease back to one box ready for winter?

Dishmop said:

Your method of increasing spring build up is by adding more boxes underneath existing brood box? Elsewhere you tell us no good adding more boxes because bees cann...

?

Click to expand...

Plaa plaa and plaa. Pile method... ? You do not understand much about beekeeping.

You think that beekeeping is just piling up boxes in wrong order.

Secret is that everything starts from queens. Good queen needs more than one brood box. Good spring build up needs a strong wintering hive. How do you get a strong winter cluster if brood hive I full wintering honey.

What do you do with good queen, if you do not let it lay?

What do you do after all with bees, if you do not want yield and do not extract it?

How can you stir the glass hive on soffa 50 years and dream that you are a bee keeper?

Plaa plaa and plaa. Why ? You do not understand much about beekeeping.

You think that beekeeping is just piling up boxes in wrong order.

Secret is that everything starts from queens. Good queen needs more than one brood box. Good spring build up needs a strong wintering hive.

What do you do with good queen, if you do not let it lay?

What do you do after all with bees, if you do not want yield and do not extract it?

How can you stir the glass hive on soffa 50 years and dream that you are a bee keeper?

Click to expand...

Is that what you call a civilised answer to a reasonable question?

Dishmop said:

Your method of increasing spring build up is by adding more boxes underneath existing brood box? Elsewhere you tell us no good adding more boxes because bees cannot keep it warm enough for new brood.. So lets say that at end of season when you have taken all thier frames of honey from food boxes and you are left with three boxes of brood..........How do you decrease back to one box ready for winter?

Click to expand...

See Post 13 - Finman does not reduce to a single BB for Winter. from memory, he has often commented about overwintering on multiple brood boxes.

Teemore said:

See Post 13 - Finman does not reduce to a single BB for Winter. from memory, he has often commented about overwintering on multiple brood boxes.

Click to expand...

It depends, how strong is the brooding at the end of summer. Wintering boxes are 1 or 2 but never 3.
Winter cluster will be such size how many brood frames the hive has in the middle of August. And that depends often on red clover pollen what they get in August. Our native nature stops blooming and pollen production 10.8.

A hive can have 8 boxes in summer but if will be reduced according last brooding

Too much space in spring means slower build up. (heat loss)

Finman said:

I have had hives in 3 springs on autumn OSR. I noticed that they are not able to forage nectar if weather is windy and temps under 20C. Bees flied vigorously but returned to hive without load. I had a good hive on balance. Field was 12 hectares and I bloomed 5 weeks.

Mostly hives get 15 kg honey from dandelion, but when it comes a bad rainy week, strongly growing hive will eate half from that crop.

Click to expand...

There must be something else at work here Finman. It has been very windy and we haven't had 20C yet this year (at least not in my area) and I have 4 boxes on my hives. They have lots of OSR honey. We get no crop at all from dandelions

So, actually good spring build up is a whole circle which starts from queen rearing in June.

But if you do not treat varroa, varroa takes half of bees every year.

Swarming is next problem, but it can be handled. Queen rearing and selection is the most important thing in preventing.

To get good yield you need good pastures.

Teemore said:

See Post 13 - Finman does not reduce to a single BB for Winter. from memory, he has often commented about overwintering on multiple brood boxes.

Click to expand...

From memory I think he only does brood and brood and a half, which is hardly mutilple.

My hives started to enlarge a week ago, and even douple brood wintered hives had only one box of bees.

Click to expand...

so from one box of bees a week ago you now have two or three on each hive, but the other part of my question was what do you do with them at the end of the season to get back to one box?

Too much space in spring means slower build up.

Click to expand...

but you have now in the last week added extra boxes to your hives.........and according to you its too cold in UK for us to be adding boxes.

B+. said:

There must be something else at work here Finman. It has been very windy and we haven't had 20C yet this year (at least not in my area) and I have 4 boxes on my hives. They have lots of OSR honey. We get no crop at all from dandelions

Click to expand...

That I amazing yield in those spring weathers.
Have you noticed that black Carniolan is able to work better I low temps than Italians?

But your hives must be quite strong when rape starts to bloom. Small colonies will be jammed at once on OSR. It means that hives are strong over winter.

Dishmop said:

.How do you decrease back to one box ready for winter?

Click to expand...

I assume its just the same as here: as the queen reduces laying in the autumn there is more space for the late honey to be laid down as winter stores. Any deficit is made up with sugar syrup. Surplus boxes can be removed and put into storage. You wouldn't get that much brood in autumn.
Since we are talking about spring build up at the moment, I think providing additional space beneath the brood is a very good idea.

Finman said:

That I amazing yield in those spring weathers.
Have you noticed that black Carniolan is able to work better I low temps than Italians?

But your hives must be quite strong when rape starts to bloom. Small colonies will be jammed at once on OSR. It means that hives are strong over winter.

Click to expand...

Yes. Carniolans build up quickly (and continue to build up) on the OSR. Thats one of the reasons I believe Carniolans are ideal for our conditions. OSR is THE main nectar source for most of us. Thats why we need a bee that builds up early/quickly.
The colonies I over-wintered in single Langstroths are in 4 boxes now. Those I over-wintered in doubles have more. Of course, I will reduce these a little as I cycle through them all removing honey and getting them ready for field beans.

Dishmop said:

but you have now in the last week added extra boxes to your hives.........and according to you its too cold in UK for us to be adding boxes.

Click to expand...

Yep. My strongest hives have now 4 boxes.

Has anybody told you that if one Langstroth box is full of brood, and when those brood emerge, the colony needs 3 Langstroth boxes for bees. And next week one box more again. Then hive has two boxes of brood and when it emerges, the colony needs 6-8 boxes.

Too cold to add boxes. That is for "do nothing guys" ... Use your brains. ..and take you medicines you old fart.