Suggestions/solutions?

Hi, this is my first question/problem, and as such a relatively small one, but would appreciate anybody's advice.

I collected my first colony of bees yesterday. Brought from a very good source, travelled safely in a nuc which I left them in before moving them into my hive this afternoon. So far, so good.

On putting my hive back together and watching the stray flying bees navigate their way in, I noticed that a lot of them had started to gather by the bottom of the queen excluder (wooden framed one).

It seems that the metal frame runners I have attached in the brood box have had the undesired effect of raising the top of the frames slightly above the level of the box and the QE is now resting on these, leaving the gap (about 1.5mm).

After 30 minutes or so all but a few stragglers had made their way in having given up trying and discovering the door.

So, what would you/should I do with the gap? I assume if I leave it they will propolise it, which will make it very difficult to remove the QE.

Can I buy a 'riser' which would increase the depth of the QE frame and ensure it rests on the box?

Sadly I think the runners are nailed in too well to remove now and I'm reluctant to mess around more so soon after being moved (and the weather is pants!).

I knew it had all gone too smoothly, but on a good note, I saw the queen and she looked smashing

Thanks in advance

I would pop them back into the nuc box and fix those runners.
That's the first thing.
Now, how many frames of bees have you? 5?
They should be in a dummied down full size hive with a frame of foundation each side. Add more frames as they draw them out.
Why have you got an excluder on? There isn't a super on top is there?

Thanks for replying so quickly.

They came on 5 frames (good lot of brood and food) and I was advised to put them in in order between three frames of foundation either side.

I wasn't going to put the super on, but was advised by the seller that it would be ok to (He's had donkey's years experience so was happy to go with it!).

Am happy to take super off if that's best, especially as it's blowing a hoolie out there now. Will have to wait until better weather to sort runners, any suggestions?

Always quicker in the long run to do the job properly.
No need to rush though, a few days won't hurt, wait for a better weather day to do it.

What you can do while you're waiting is just lay some strips on top of the box edge to seal the gap, use thin bits of wood or even cardboard/newspaper will do, if it's too wide and sticks out no matter, it's only temporary. That will stop the draft and prevent too much propolis.

Then just put the crown board and roof on till the weather improves. The roof should hide the join well enough.

I agree with Erica 100%

Whilst following her instruction, when you remove the excluder, take a look at it. It may be a 'one sided excluder' ie turn it one way for top bee space and the other for bottom.

Right, super removed, cardboard strips added, crown board and roof on (does hide gap well!) and hopefully less draughty bees!

I just feel a bit gutted/frustrated that I thought I was making an improvement only for it to bite me on the backside!

Thanks so much

I had wondered that with the excluder, but couldn't see an obvious up or down. Will take a better look tomorrow, have put it in the shed now as not needed just yet.

Well done
I'd put the inspection tray in too

Thank you, I hope they appreciate it too!

I switched the floor the hive came with for an open mesh with an inspection tray. I really want to be a good bee mum!

Sounds to me like the hive you have was not designed to take the metal runners - have you nailed them in place ? If so you could leave them in place and get some stripwood from Wickes or B&Q (a few mm thick) and nail and glue it in place around the top edge of the hive ... you could even get enough thickness to give you top beespace in your hive .. which I prefer. You will have a few mm extra at the bottom of the frames but with a mesh floor that's probably not going to be a problem.

PS: You are listening to the bloke who has a degree in 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' .. have a look at my thread about my LDH if you want to know what a cock up really is !!

You are running with bottom bee space so the frame top bars should be level with the top of the box or very slightly below; they must not be higher than the top edge of the box. Your queen exccluder in the frame should have a bee space one side and no space the other ideally. That would allow you to place it such that there is a bee space between the frame tops and the excluder and there will then be another bee space between excluder and the bottom of the super frames (when required).

One can often get away with dropping a nuc into a full box, with all foundation frames fitted, at this time of the year. But perhaps not this year. It is always better to control the growing space to a reasonable amount, such that the nuc can easily cope with (keeping warm and drawing comb), because the UK weather is not that predictable.

For instance, a martian posted a thread, on the first of March, that the weather was 'springier' yet here we are, at the beginning of June, with most on the forum lamenting the poor season so far.

Beanbag said:

It seems that the metal frame runners I have attached in the brood box have had the undesired effect of raising the top of the frames slightly above the level of the box and the QE is now resting on these, leaving the gap (about 1.5mm).

Click to expand...

Where did you get the hive from? if it was Maisie Moores their hives have a bevel to rest the frames on and are not designed to be used with metal runners

Hi Beanbag,
Not sure that the advice to put a super on immediately was good. Bees feel a bit overwhelmed. They need to draw out the brood frames first, queen fill most with brood, keep the temperature high)..and when they are finally using the 2 outer frames (filling with nectar etc)- that is the time to put on a super.
If the super is brand new foundation, leave the queen exc out for a week to entice them up to new work... then pop QE in when you are happy bees using the super. If QE in below new foundation they do seem reluctant to rise to the occasion!

pargyle said:

Sounds to me like the hive you have was not designed to take the metal runners - have you nailed them in place ? If so you could leave them in place and get some stripwood from Wickes or B&Q (a few mm thick) and nail and glue it in place around the top edge of the hive ... you could even get enough thickness to give you top beespace in your hive .. which I prefer. You will have a few mm extra at the bottom of the frames but with a mesh floor that's probably not going to be a problem.

PS: You are listening to the bloke who has a degree in 'it seemed like a good idea at the time' .. have a look at my thread about my LDH if you want to know what a cock up really is !!

Click to expand...

That would mean you would then have top bee space on top of the BB & bottom bee space between the super & QE which would be built up with brace comb?
To save redoing it all cant you just go without the Qe & go to brood & half when you need to? Maybe remove the super & Qe for now, when needed just add the super, then your Qe could go on top of that super & all will be fine when you add the next one.

jonnybeegood said:

That would mean you would then have top bee space on top of the BB & bottom bee space between the super & QE which would be built up with brace comb?
To save redoing it all cant you just go without the Qe & go to brood & half when you need to? Maybe remove the super & Qe for now, when needed just add the super, then your Qe could go on top of that super & all will be fine when you add the next one.

Click to expand...

No ... the QE provides the 'floor' for the super so there's just a bit of extra 'top bee space' above the frames - so there won't be brace comb between the bottom of the frames in the super and the QX. If there's a bit built on the top of the frames in the brood box then that's easily dealt with .. even when they build on top of the frames mine rarely fill it with anything. Just scrape it off with your hive tool - I tend to clean up frames as I do my inspections anyway.

oliver90owner said:

It is always better to control the growing space to a reasonable amount, such that the nuc can easily cope with (keeping warm and drawing comb), because the UK weather is not that predictable.

For instance, a martian posted a thread, on the first of March, that the weather was 'springier' yet here we are, at the beginning of June, with most on the forum lamenting the poor season so far.

Click to expand...

That one brightened up my morning! LOL.

jonnybeegood said:

That would mean you would then have top bee space on top of the BB & bottom bee space between the super & QE which would be built up with brace comb?
To save redoing it all cant you just go without the Qe & go to brood & half when you need to? Maybe remove the super & Qe for now, when needed just add the super, then your Qe could go on top of that super & all will be fine when you add the next one.

Click to expand...

what about the crown board........? Same problem, bee space?
RAB will have you for that one!?

midnight sun said:

what about the crown board........? Same problem?
RAB will have you for that one!?

Click to expand...

Strips of 1/4 ply pinned on the top edge of the BB, that was already suggested which is why i didnt mention it �� there, saved from the wrath of a pussy cat

Ah, but are you really from earth??

That edit knocked this out.