Help Re: Best Plan of Action for 4 Colonies

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Had posted this in Beginners section but think it is a better fitt for this section. Help Gratefully accepted . Thanks !!

The short of it ( sorry but as short as I can make it giving as much as I see relevant info )

4 colonies

2 in each out apiary , approx 3 miles apart

Apiary 1

Full hive ( with part filled super ) bought ( as full hive for particular reason to repay landowner with honey for getting excellent apiary site )and opened end June for 1st inspection 5 days after purchase , charged/sealed q.cell, found queen AS them , put 3 frames with queen into new poly Nuc box STUPIDLY managed to leave 1 frame foundation frame out of Nuc box, problem 1 ( more later ).

Other bought Nuc, going great in cedar hive, inspected yesterday, Beautifull full brood frames and queen spotted and new eggs spotted. On and drawn down 8 of 12 frames in Brood box. So going well.

Other Apiary

Nuc box from main hive split as detailed above, when I checked Nuc after return from Hols discovered my mistake , Beautifull brace/wild comb built in void where frame 6 should have been, even worse , built hanging from Perspex cover under lid so can't remove Perspex cover without collapsing it ?

Other hive, had been producing q. Cells in large nos for weeks up until last inspection on 12th July before I went on Hols ( 2 weeks ) , broke down all leaving 2 charged q. Cells, put super on as were strong, inspected yesterday, went ballistic when opened, a new experience, 15 plus stings to gauntlet in seconds, again stupid mistake as smoker died, closed up immediately, did not get to ascertain whether brood/ queen present

Best overall course of action ? Any sound advice MUCH appreciated ?

Thanks

Brian

oliver90owner

Queen Bee


Other apiary, other hive has predictably swarmed while you were on holiday. Will now have a new queen most likely. Hardly long enough to be laying? (Draw a time line?).

Practise keeping your smoker alight - and I daresay you knew it was going out before you opened the hive, so you may learn from it. Not a mistake I suggest; some other reason, like you didn't think....

Get the nuc comb sorted. It will not get any better on its own.
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Old Yesterday, 11:24 PM #3

BrianO


Good advice, but if you can give more would appreciate, if not Thanks anyway

and I daresay you knew it was going out before you opened the hive Not a mistake I suggest; some other reason, like you didn't think...
.

Partially Correct ?? No didnt know it was going out, just hadnt made sure properly ignited and strong burn to cover inspection time.In reality was rushed as second apiary inspection and had not made sure fully lit before inspection, so my bad, ( if it is that bad ??)

But that is not the important issue, what is important for me to get my head around us a overall plan to result in strongest colonies

My thoughts were to MAYBE unite Apiary 1 full hive and Apiary 1 strong cedar hived Nuc ??

Apiary 2 Nuc do I need to hive them in new hive and what do I do with the brace/wild comb ?

Thanks

Brian
 
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My thoughts were to MAYBE unite Apiary 1 full hive and Apiary 1 strong cedar hived Nuc ??

Why unite? it is still early enough and both seem to be doing OK to possibly make strong colonies before winter, but you know your own plans.

The other nuc - I would just remove the wild comb as carefully as possible. Any honey you could feed back to them and any brood just fix into a frame with elastic bands - or bin it. Make sure you use a dummy board and gradually let them expand a frame or two at a time,
 
brace combe nuc, you say its Perspex crown board so just slide your hive tool along it to free from lid, then remove frame on opposite side of hive to give you some room to move and take it out, decide what you want to do with it, but make sure you don't have a queen on it ifyou throw it away!!

im with oliver - keep that smoker lit, don't ever risk it - we have probably all done it and all regretted it! if you think its getting low get more fuel, and if it fell over and went out find a better surface to leave it on.

lively hive is possibly queen in waiting/queen neg, go to this hive first before your other three, grumpy hives easier to cope with when its the first visit not the last! have a cover cloth for working it may help ( I don't usually use one, but recently with similar grumpy hive, I really did find it helped)

have a cold ice block ready just in case they get you again!!
 
:icon_204-2:Thanks very Much

Helpfull replies, great idea re brace comb banding it into brood frame. Will definitely try.

Tempted to try and unite hive that is queen less in apiary 1 and other Polynuc with queen.

To do this as I Understand I would need to put frames with queen from Polynuc in National brood box, put this on top of existing queenless national brood box,( so now would have double brood box ?? ) with a sheet of newspaper between them, small nick in corner to allow them to start chewing through, single sheet ?? seems flimsy ?? how long before they chew through ?. Success rate ??

The Super that is already on this queenless hive , I would place on top of the newly hived brood box with queen ?? allowing the bees from the poly nuc access into this super that they did not create ??

Lots of questions but am confused as to the exact details of how to acheive the successfull end result I require, a strong single colony, with plenty of brood to go into winter strong and hopefully during august finish filling the super and maybe another . allowing me to take off the super and extract honey ( allowing for the fact that they would have, and I would have checked before doing so that they have good stores for winter in their double brood box.

Think I need to sit down after that !!! :sifone:
 
Think you would need to unite other way round . Q+ polynuc into national BB. Sheet of paper. Make a few small nicks in paper with corner of hive tool, to give them a start, then the other bb with its super on the very top.
Success rate is nigh 100%. They will have united in a day or two. Then you can sort out brood frames into a single box as you wish, or run as double bb.
 
My thoughts were to MAYBE unite Apiary 1 full hive and Apiary 1 strong cedar hived Nuc ??

Apiary 2 Nuc do I need to hive them in new hive and what do I do with the brace/wild comb ?

Thanks

Brian

Why? is Apiary 1 Hive definitely Q- ?

Apiary 1

Full hive ( with part filled super ) bought ( as full hive for particular reason to repay landowner with honey for getting excellent apiary site )and opened end June for 1st inspection 5 days after purchase , charged/sealed q.cell, found queen AS them ,

Give us actual date sealed QC found - has she mated? are there eggs, BIAS? any other indicators things aren't right

AS them , put 3 frames with queen into new poly Nuc box

That's not really an A/S but that's by the by

Apiary 1

Other bought Nuc, going great in cedar hive, inspected yesterday, Beautifull full brood frames and queen spotted and new eggs spotted. On and drawn down 8 of 12 frames in Brood box. So going well.
No need to worry about that one but twelve frames? what hives have you?

Apiary 2
Nuc box from main hive split as detailed above, when I checked Nuc after return from Hols discovered my mistake , Beautifull brace/wild comb built in void where frame 6 should have been, even worse , built hanging from Perspex cover under lid so can't remove Perspex cover without collapsing it ?

That's been covered - just get the comb out and put a frame in, discard. State of play re: frames of brood? probably needs hiving



Other hive, had been producing q. Cells in large nos for weeks

So why the hell did you do b*gger all about it?!


inspection on 12th July before I went on Hols ( 2 weeks ) , broke down all leaving 2 charged q. Cells, put super on as were strong

And where did the queen figure in all this?

inspected yesterday, went ballistic when opened, a new experience, 15 plus stings to gauntlet in seconds, again stupid mistake as smoker died, closed up immediately, did not get to ascertain whether brood/ queen present

Well, we know now - she's swarmed, cross your fingers you have a virgin in there - wait a few weeks and check again.
Bring some more proper info back so someone can have an idea of what's going on
 
Too complicated for me, I use the KISS approach as advocated on the forum many times.
 
Ok some really good advice Thanks Very Much for yor time and detail in replying, ,will give all carefull consideration to formulate a " plan of attack " and when fully considered might have some additional queries

One comment I would make though, and this at times seems to be a common theme here, is the likes of

So why the hell did you do b*gger all about it?!

Bring some more proper info back so someone can have an idea of what's going on
jenkinsbriar,

Detect an air of the superiority complex kicking in here, appreciate in this field of beekeeping you are obviously far more competent than I.

Though would say, having endeavoured to give as much relevant info as possible as a 1st season Beek , I do find these sort of replies bordering on the objectionable, considering this was my initial post on the overall current predicament I have created with my colonies, in this area of the forum.

No problem, if you think from my assessment of my current situation that either

A; I am at this stage not fully competent in what I am endeavouring to do, or
B: my explanation of my current predicament is not detailed in some areas enough, no problem.

Why not just keep it polite and more importantly in my opinion .... friendly.

Pity , as the rest of your reply was of great interest to me, and I do Thank You for that.

Too complicated for me, I use the KISS approach as advocated on the forum many times.

Redwood, not sure how to decipher this, KISS ?? Some forum abbreviation ??

If my breakdown is to complicated for you Apologies, can appreciate for experienced Beek's some of my details might be a bit on the basic side.

Anyway on a positive note the replies are generally extremely helpful . Thanks again
 
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Ok, after engaging the other side of my usually dormant brain

KISS keep it simple , or something like that ?? and here's me thinking I had :sifone:
 

"Detect an air of the superiority complex kicking in here, appreciate in this field of beekeeping you are obviously far more competent than I, but would say, having endeavoured to give as much relevant info as possible as a 1st season Beek , I do find these sort of replies bordering on the objectionable, considering this was my initial post on the overall current predicament I have created with my colonies, in this area of the forum."

You've been on the Irishguy thread and you must have seen the lengths that people have gone to (and JBM in particular) to sort that mess out ... I have to say that I found your post on this thread about the state of things (and what had been done/not done) almost as confusing as Irishguys.

You would do well to heed JBM's advice and some that I gave to IG ... try and give a CLEAR AND CONCISE report on the state of your hives .. rambling posts are very difficult to decipher and you won't get people to respond if it becomes too difficult to work out what the problem actually is. Break it down into specific hives and specific issues, give the hives clear names or numbers and stick to them.

"Redwood, not sure how to decipher this, KISS ?? Some forum abbreviation ??"

KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID !
 
If you are calling me Stupid, that I do find objectionable.

Have to say its a shame to see such levels of aggression in postings. To me I understand it as I have seen some ( though generally few ) such aggressive postings on forums before and I would not lose sleep over it.

Do not know anyone on here personally, regardless of whether I did would not ever resort to such abuse.

If my post was " rambling " apologies .
 
well, with the state of my back i find it difficult to talk to someone up on their high horse Yue were the one whose been banging on about needing help then you couldn't even lay out the facts for anybody to analyse which is why nobody bothered replying. You've been on this forum a while now and have seen countless threads where it has been stressed that seeing QC's and doing naff all is not an option. You can't help yourself but expect everybody else to rush to your aid to save you thinking for yourself.
I'll just go back to trying to sort one man's mess out - at least he can take a bawling out when given - and give thanks for it.

as my grandfather would say

There We Are Then
 
If you are calling me Stupid, that I do find objectionable.

Have to say its a shame to see such levels of aggression in postings. To me I understand it as I have seen some ( though generally few ) such aggressive postings on forums before and I would not lose sleep over it.

Do not know anyone on here personally, regardless of whether I did would not ever resort to such abuse.

If my post was " rambling " apologies .

Nobody's calling you stupid ... the KISS principle has been around since the early 1970's ... it's been a generic marketing term for getting people to try and do things simply rather than complicating things. If you think this forum is aggressive then you are either not reading all the posts or you are reading into them something that's not there ... JBM went out of his way to try and break your original post down into something that could be understood and offered advice on the points that he could determine needed attention.

Posts are to the point at times but I think, sometimes, the frustation gets the better of people .... would you buy a herd of cows, stick them in a field and then ask the farmer next door what you should do with them ? Bees are livestock, they need husbandry and they need to have people looking after them that have some knowledge (Not a huge amount) of what they are doing - it seems that there are a lot of people who just don't read the books - and this is not directed at you - just a general comment from what we've seen over the last few months on here.
 
Sorry if I sounded a bit off putting but it's not that hard to get it right and bees need very little to thrive;
Is the colony queen right (understand queen right)
does the queen have room to lay
do the bees have room
do the bees have stores ( pollen honey)
are the free from disease (understand bee and queen diseases)
Are they preparing to swarm (understand types of queen cells)
have a clear understanding on swarm control methods and be preemptive and have enough equipment ready


You could write a book on it but that's the basics in a nutshell (kiss)
 
Fair enough , OK

I have no problem and welcome advice, fully appreciate the requirements of keeping all sorts of livestock, having kept all manner of critters with good success over the years.

Hence the reason for attending the winter course in Beekeeping, I also have no problem in putting my hand up to say I am in a bind in relation to the current 2 of four I believe queen less colonies. Great advice re the poly Nuc I screwed up on, that I will act on accordingly.

Again I do really appreciate the advice, but let's just say, it could be expressed in a more friendly manner at times. Of course I am sure the more experienced Beeks here find some of the more basic questions posed frustrating, but heh, there is the option of not bothering to reply to such queries.

Anyway not to get the blood pressure any more elevated, will read in detail your replies, to try to sort out my own mess I am in, and learn from it

Thanks again.... And don't call me a Stupid !!! :sifone: you gotta laugh !!
 
well, with the state of my back i find it difficult to talk to someone up on their high horse Yue were the one whose been banging on about needing help then you couldn't even lay out the facts for anybody to analyse which is why nobody bothered replying. You've been on this forum a while now and have seen countless threads where it has been stressed that seeing QC's and doing naff all is not an option. You can't help yourself but expect everybody else to rush to your aid to save you thinking for yourself.
I'll just go back to trying to sort one man's mess out - at least he can take a bawling out when given - and give thanks for it.

as my grandfather would say

There We Are Then

Wooooo... I think you're great too !! :sifone:

BTW, Did Thank You on more than one occasion for the non abusive portion of your advise,

For the record

Dear JB, thank You for your advise I found it extremely informative, and as a 1st year Beekeeper who has made his fair amount of errors , some I will say elementary, and will learn from them, I do realise you, are far more experienced than I in this wonderfull hobby.

Now there we go , can we broker a peace deal based on that ! :)
 
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This thread and the other from IG are becoming painful to read.
New beeks if you have a problem and don't have the requisite knowledge at this early stage of your hobby read read read and devise a plan, if you are truly stuck and you are looking for advice from the forum, make suggestions yourself or if you have no idea just follow that advice given to the letter.
But for gods sake keep it short so that all new beeks can learn.
What I am really disappointed about is two Irish Beekeepers resorting to presenting problems on a forum, we have a great support network through the associations of FIBKA and in our own club each new beek gets a mentor of which I am one and that allows me to get calls all hours of the day and night with new beeks panicking, 95% of the time its over nothing at all and thats cool too.
 
Dissapointed you may be, that is up to you, but factually you are incorrect,

You are dreaming if you think that each new beekeeper gets a mentor, that level of organisation is not present in the association, it is dissapointing, it is a case of complete the course, sit the exam , and off you go.

As was for I and the other 1st year Beekeepers that I met whilst on the course. Not a mention at any stage of mentoring or more importantly any attempt to organise same. To go a stage further, did ( very friendly and politely ) mention to a well known knowledgeable beekeeper in the association that our allotment hives would be literally 1k from his many hives, and would be great if he could drop in. Let's just say the conversation ended there, which is OK, he could well not have the time etc, appreciate people have their own lives to live and things to do, but again to be clear there is no mentoring programme in Southside Dublin.

make suggestions yourself or if you have no idea just follow that advice given to the letter.

Ok, DID make suggestions, appreciate it is a "pain" to read but if you can bear the pain, and actually read I do make suggestions,

Please don't bother replying , to be honest need to close off on this, do appreciate my own mistakes , but will sort them out , so Thanks anyway.

Sorry all for the detail but just responding to the above to correct
 
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Same here, when I done the course there was no practical, I did ask and was told we will arrange something but nothing came of it, it is hard but I gave myself a set of commands and practised hive inspections and swarm prevention methods with empty hives and a good book, discipline and dedication got my bees through their first year and not to forget the late Dave Cushman. I'm glad to say that All new beekeepers at our association these days get a good practical course that lasts the whole year that covers every eventuality with five experienced mentors and JBM as our Manager.
A good tip is if you see something in your hive you are not familiar with, close your hive up, walk away and think about it, even if it means coming home and searching the internet for answers then have a clear idea what you need to do.
This is why I always use the KISS approach, do not overcomplicate thing, take one step at a time and enjoy your hobby.
 

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