So what could have happened?

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kazmcc

Queen Bee
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
3,147
Reaction score
3
Location
Longsight, Manchester, UK
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
None, although I have my eye on one ( Just don't tell Dusty ;) )
All this talk of bees and being gratefully allowed to assist inspections ( thank you Dusty :) ) is making me think back to my colony, and how they died.

The last inspection I did before tucking them up for winter went like this -

I was using a National BB, single brood, although it was that crappy one we were given when we first started.
Entrance block was in, and mouse guard fitted over the top.
Given a full super, fully capped with stores in the BB also.
OMF with no tray inserted.

When I returned at the end of winter, there were one or two robbers. Dead bees on the OMF, the supers had been eaten into and there were still stores capped - which I don't think the robbers had eaten as it was still early and very few bees attempting to rob, I think they had only just found this source. No sign of faeces.

I have been reading Storch, and his diagnosis suggests suffocation although I would imagine using an OMF would remedy this problem, and for them to have suffocated, they would have had to be already dying in large numbers to cover the floor and stop the flow of air getting in.

I really don't want to be in this position again, and if there were any mistakes on my part I would like to know, and to learn from them before I get another colony. Any insights?
 
Sometimes it just seems to happen no matter what you do. It sounds like you made sure they had plenty of stores, which is the main thing, the next is disease from varroa to nosema. Did you treat the bees with anything?
 
I treated them with ApiLife that year, but nothing else apart from the odd dusting of icing sugar. Didn't touch them all winter.

Maybe something additional this time? I've seen some new stuff, well, new to me lol, like MAQS, although I understand this is to be used instead of the thymol treatments and not in addition.
 
Do you think it may have been the material the BB was made from? I am pretty sure it was one of those 'basic bees' hives.
 
I am also going to use drone culling this time. I wasn't taught it but I know how to do it from reading the forum, so I am definitely planning an using this method with my next colony.
 
I doubt it was the hive material as bees make their hoes in some strange places/containers.
I am using MAQS again this year as i found it worked fine for me last year.
 
I doubt it was the hive material as bees make their hoes in some strange places/containers.
I am using MAQS again this year as i found it worked fine for me last year.

Great stuff. I will give it a try.

So nothing I did? I just want to be absolutely sure I did everything I could and made no huge mistakes. I was worried that I had blocked their entrance too much with both the block and the mouse guard, but if that was the case they would have eaten all the stores then died. I understand that most people use both though.
 
I think most use just the mouseguard on its own, if using one.
 
Ok, so next time leave the block out? By that time wasps won't be much of a problem anyway, and what you save in draughts, you lose through an OMF anyway I would imagine. How many people put the tray in over winter? Is that necessary do you think?
 
I only ever used the tray while using apiguard.
 
Last year we had reduced entrance blocks in and mouseguards reduced to 2 holes because of wasps and they remained like that all winter with no losses.

All on OMF's I must add.

Tim.
 
Last year we had reduced entrance blocks in and mouseguards reduced to 2 holes because of wasps and they remained like that all winter with no losses.

Tim.

Thank you Tim. I did a quick search of the forum, and found a few posts about using both. I suppose it's just one of those individual preference things so common in beekeeping.
 
For good over-wintering several things are needed.

Strong colonies (unless extra help is given)
No disease (nosema, per eg).
Varroa-free, when winter bees are produced.
Good laying queen.
Adequate stores.
No top ventilation, if on OMF. (I never over-winter with any top ventilation now).
Sensible siting of hive

Other items that definitely help are:

Good weatherproof hives (polyhives are good).
Top insulation.
Sheltered position.
No interference.

Other items like mouse guards and woodpecker protection will be necessary precautions for some or most.

The most important is a strong healthy colony, IMO.

Extra feed can be supplied if necessary, bees will propolise most gaps, given the opportunity.

All simple things to aim for. Like almost everything in beekeeping, simplicity is adequate.

RAB
 
For good over-wintering several things are needed.

Strong colonies (unless extra help is given)
No disease (nosema, per eg).
Varroa-free, when winter bees are produced.
Good laying queen.
Adequate stores.
No top ventilation, if on OMF. (I never over-winter with any top ventilation now).
Sensible siting of hive

Other items that definitely help are:

Good weatherproof hives (polyhives are good).
Top insulation.
Sheltered position.
No interference.

Other items like mouse guards and woodpecker protection will be necessary precautions for some or most.

The most important is a strong healthy colony, IMO.

Extra feed can be supplied if necessary, bees will propolise most gaps, given the opportunity.

All simple things to aim for. Like almost everything in beekeeping, simplicity is adequate.

RAB

Thanks Rab. I considered it a good strong colony, low mite drops and she was my first, reared queen from that year who was laying beautifully. Lovely, even laying right up to the edges of the frames. I am as sure as I can be that they weren't suffering any diseases. I think I gave them enough stores, but I didn't have any top insulation though. They were in a good, sheltered position but I can't account for them not being interfered with, as you are all aware of the problems I faced back then. Those problems will not be present this time around thankfully. I am considering polys - maybe just for the brood boxes - it is something I am thinking about and will be asking more about as things progress.

So, the general consensus is this was out of my hands? Just one of those losses that beekeepers suffer? I just want to be sure this time that I am doing everything I can for the bees, with my limited experience.

I am so thankful for this forum. I would say that almost everything I have learned is through you guys and gals.
 
Hi Kazmcc

Good luck with your new hive when you get it. In my opinion (for what it is worth), we cannot fully predict (and therefore control) everything, so all we can do is learn what we can, and equally as important, not let the what happened in the past negatively impact on how we deal with issues the future.

Regards

Sally
 
Hi Kazmcc

Good luck with your new hive when you get it. In my opinion (for what it is worth), we cannot fully predict (and therefore control) everything, so all we can do is learn what we can, and equally as important, not let the what happened in the past negatively impact on how we deal with issues the future.

Regards

Sally

Thank you Sally :) Just wanted to make sure I do everything I can to avoid it happening again. I know people suffer losses, sometimes through no fault of their own, but with our project we will be counting the pennies unless I win funding. It was also heart breaking, expecting them to be on their cleansing flights and finding them all dead. I want to be the best beekeeper I can be and have the bees in the best condition possible :)
 
I lost one like this a couple of years ago so I can share your pain as it were. There were plenty of bees and a box full of honey going in and all seemed to be as well as with the hive immediately adjacent. There was no disease in either of them and no outward cause for concern.

I install electronic thermometers in all my hives going into winter so I can keep an eye on inside temps without disturbing them at all. The colony that didn't make it was consistently around 5degrees C warmer than the other 6 in the apiary at that time. For some reason they needed it to be warmer to be comfortable. I didn't realise why at the time but when I found them dead in the March after seeing plenty of activity in the February, I noted that the combs they were still clinging to were totally devoid of pollen even though they had lots of honey within easy reach. My conclusion was that the winter bees did not have adequate pollen to lay down fat and therefore neededto work harder to keep the box at a comfortable temperature. That extra work, coupled with what I suspect were snow flight losses, reduced the nhmber of bees to a level at which no amount of work coukd maintain the hive above survival temperatures during the nights and they essentially froze to death.

I may be wrong and it may not fit your case but it is the best explanation I could think of to explain my loss.
 
I lost one like this a couple of years ago so I can share your pain as it were. There were plenty of bees and a box full of honey going in and all seemed to be as well as with the hive immediately adjacent. There was no disease in either of them and no outward cause for concern.

I install electronic thermometers in all my hives going into winter so I can keep an eye on inside temps without disturbing them at all. The colony that didn't make it was consistently around 5degrees C warmer than the other 6 in the apiary at that time. For some reason they needed it to be warmer to be comfortable. I didn't realise why at the time but when I found them dead in the March after seeing plenty of activity in the February, I noted that the combs they were still clinging to were totally devoid of pollen even though they had lots of honey within easy reach. My conclusion was that the winter bees did not have adequate pollen to lay down fat and therefore neededto work harder to keep the box at a comfortable temperature. That extra work, coupled with what I suspect were snow flight losses, reduced the nhmber of bees to a level at which no amount of work coukd maintain the hive above survival temperatures during the nights and they essentially froze to death.

I may be wrong and it may not fit your case but it is the best explanation I could think of to explain my loss.

Wow! Thank you so much galileo. I hadn't even considered pollen! I thought they only used it for rearing brood, so I have learned something :) I will consider this in future for sure. Great explaination.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top