True Swarm Fever

Hi all,
It has been said on the forum that if a colony still has swarm fever after being artificially swarmed the parent colony may still swarm with the first available virgin. Me thinking, there must have been another queen cell which the beek missed, as it is easily done. I have now found the following quote “However, colonies with virgin queens sometimes swarm even though no other queen cells or larvae from which to rear a queen are present”, George S Demuth, Comb Honey. No self-preservation instincts there then, unless in these circumstances more or less all the bees go with the swarm?
How common is this?

I'd be interested too.
It has never happened in my apiary but I have had a queen in the AS swarm with absolutely no evidence of missed queen cells on the introduced frame.

beeno said:

Hi all,
It has been said on the forum that if a colony still has swarm fever after being artificially swarmed the parent colony may still swarm with the first available virgin. Me thinking, there must have been another queen cell which the beek missed, as it is easily done. I have now found the following quote “However, colonies with virgin queens sometimes swarm even though no other queen cells or larvae from which to rear a queen are present”, George S Demuth, Comb Honey. No self-preservation instincts there then, unless in these circumstances more or less all the bees go with the swarm?
How common is this?

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I'd never heard of the George S Demuth but google revealed the tome of which you speak was first published in 1912. It will be interesting to learn if modern bee authorities concur.

Gilberdyke John said:

I'd never heard of the George S Demuth but google revealed the tome of which you speak was first published in 1912. It will be interesting to learn if modern bee authorities concur.

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interesting ..... it would be a miracle if you can find another beek who agrees with anything.

Never had one go after an AS only supercedure, two
queen cells side by side

beeno said:

Hi all,
It has been said on the forum that if a colony still has swarm fever after being artificially swarmed the parent colony may still swarm with the first available virgin. Me thinking, there must have been another queen cell which the beek missed, as it is easily done. I have now found the following quote “However, colonies with virgin queens sometimes swarm even though no other queen cells or larvae from which to rear a queen are present”, George S Demuth, Comb Honey. No self-preservation instincts there then, unless in these circumstances more or less all the bees go with the swarm?
How common is this?

Click to expand...

Important to distinguish swarming and absconding.

"Swarming", to me is a term best reserved for colony splitting/reproduction. Roughly half leave to found a new colony - and the other half remain to rebuild the old colony around a new queen.

If there are no more Q cells, and no young larvae to permit new QC building, then if a 'swarm' were to depart with the only VQ, any remaining 'rump' of the parent colony would be doomed to queenlessness.
Hence if VQ were to depart for pastures new, likely the lot would go - so actually absconding rather than swarming.




ALL THAT SAID, I wonder if perhaps Mr Demuth might perhaps have misled himself as to 'swarming' when what he saw was actually a mating flight - which can start off looking very much like a swarm. The vital difference being that the "swarm" (and then hopefully the ex-V Q) returns to the hive.

itma said:

Important to distinguish swarming and absconding.

and

ALL THAT SAID, I wonder if perhaps Mr Demuth might perhaps have misled himself as to 'swarming' when what he saw was actually a mating flight - which can start off looking very much like a swarm. The vital difference being that the "swarm" (and then hopefully the ex-V Q) returns to the hive.

Click to expand...

bee ginnner said:

interesting ..... it would be a miracle if you can find another beek who agrees with anything.

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I'd have to agree with that!

bee ginnner said:

interesting ..... it would be a miracle if you can find another beek who agrees with anything.

Click to expand...

peteinwilts said:

I'd have to agree with that!

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You have to be contrary don't you Pete!