Frame fell off holder with Queen

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JonnyPicklechin

JonnyPicklechin

Field Bee
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
539
Reaction score
38
Location
Isleworth
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
20 odd
Hi..Beginner...Had my single hive since mid May from 5 frame NUC.

Two broods, one super filling nicely. Went to do my weekly inspection. All good with brood and capped cells. Spotted HM and decided to mark her. But dropped the whole frame and bee explosion. Looked everywhere for her. (5 stings on head in the process as I took bee net off ...let that be a lesson)

What are my chances? What are my actions?

* Has she flown?
* Hidden?
* Any chance she could made it back in the hive?
* Any signs to know from the hive? Quuen roar?

Should I now replace her or await the hive to do it?

Does this increase swarm possibility?

Thanks in advance,

Jonny
 
I would say:
unlikely to induce a swarm in itself (there is a caveat)
As a rule of thumb I have noticed or part of a hive that is queenless can give off a bit of a roar it is all relative.
If she is not back in the hive look around the area for a cluster of bees she may be OK.
If she has gone then you will see queen cells in the next 2-3 days, if this is the case and there are lots of them you need to manage the numbers or they might swarm (not because of queen loss per se. but because of multiple virgins)
In terms of replacing her, if she is absent you will see queen cells and can make a decision then on what to do. Note if you do see queen cells double check for the queen or eggs!
 
Thanks ...I couldnt find her. There were plenty of groups of bees but she wasnt among them. Will take your advice and await until Monday and see what activity there is.
 
JonnyPicklechin said:
Thanks ...I couldnt find her. There were plenty of groups of bees but she wasnt among them. Will take your advice and await until Monday and see what activity there is.
Click to expand...

Check under the floor,she might be hiding there.last week I put a frame down for a couple of seconds and the queen was gone,couldn't find her anywhere.lucky I had a spare queen with me.
 
Thanks ...I couldnt find her. There were plenty of groups of bees but she wasnt among them. Will take your advice and await until Monday and see what activity there is.
 
just from the title of this post, what holder was the frame on? why was you not holding the frame above the brood box in case this did happen??
 
I would never leave a frame with a Queen on a frame holder outside the hive to be honest. I would check to see if there are eggs being laid in any of the frames, if there are then she's back in the hive. If QC are being constructed then she has gone. I hope things improve for you, I have found that coming back into bee keeping after over a 20 year break that nothing goes straight forward! But if I can offer any advice you do need two hives, with this you always have a hive to 'make good' something that has gone wrong.
 
Thanks all to those who responded..

Working over the brood makes sense! I was trying to mark her which is why I had her (on the frame) on the holder. I had a crown of thorns. It does seem a bit cack-handed to manage the frame, place the crown on and paint her. Do you suggest a two person job for this? Tips there appreciated. And you are right I wont do it again!

I'll check for those QCs Monday and see what I find.
 
PS Plan to get a second hive but was advised on course that first year one was OK.....
 
See the queen, lay the frame gently on top of the brood box, queen side up. Crown of thorns over her, gentle pressure and mark, let dry, lift crown of thorns with pierced bees, put frame gently and quickly back in hive.
The flat frame won't harm many bees if any, if you hear a high pitch buzz you have one trapped, gently lift and place frame down again. Never take your eyes off the queen or she will run under frame!
E
 
JonnyPicklechin said:
Thanks all to those who responded..

Working over the brood makes sense! I was trying to mark her which is why I had her (on the frame) on the holder. I had a crown of thorns. It does seem a bit cack-handed to manage the frame, place the crown on and paint her. Do you suggest a two person job for this? Tips there appreciated. And you are right I wont do it again!

I'll check for those QCs Monday and see what I find.
Click to expand...

either as enrico has said, or buy yourself a

one handed queen catcher, again, always keep the frame laying/holding over the brood box

https://youtu.be/cJzWZRAV_AY
 
Update

Hi there

I've checked the hive and I took pictures of the below. There were the only protuberances I could see in the whole hive. Importantly they were there when I looked on Friday ...when I had the queen issue. I have not seen anyhting new since then.

Since I am yet to see a QC (in the flesh as it were), I would be grateful of the advice and my next steps. To me, these don't look like the images of QCs I have been shown or the images online but I am sharing in case I am wrong and I can learn from experts:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xaiz6t7df2ab9kz/IMAG0937.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ihytl63zbah52c/IMAG0941.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Bees?preview=IMAG0942.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Bees?preview=IMAG0942.jpg

Thanks in advance for your comments. Jonny
 
The first photo shows just capped drone cells although that might be a play cup on the bottom left corner of the frame but without seeing inside of it you can't see if it has anything in it..

The second photo may have a queen cell started but it's a bit difficult to see as they have built a small mass of comb into the corner of the frame and there's bees in the way which doesn't help - or are the two photo's of the same frame ??

I couldn't view the last two photos without signing up to drop box I'm afraid.
 
Last edited:
JonnyPicklechin said:
I have posted the photo links again:

This is Frame "1"...is that a QC on the left?

No .. Just a play cup and as JBM says - probably an old one.

This is the Frame 1 possible, closer (though not as clear)

Ditto

This is Frame "2"...are those 'knuckles" a line of QC's?

No .. They are just an extended set of drone cells .. they often get a bit creative with comb around the bottom edges of frames and that's where you will also see them building drone comb into it. In addition they appear to be pointing upwards and I've never seen a queen cell that's occupied pointing up.

Here is Frame 3

JBM is right .. you should check for eggs .. there's a reasonable amount of sealed brood if that is reflected over the whole frame but I could only see one or two larvae .. it's difficult to see eggs in a photo unless you are really directly above the cells and they are illuminated.
Click to expand...
 
From the day it happened to today is only four days. Give her another five days and go in again looking for eggs. If there are any then you have a queen. The amount of times you have been in will not be helping!
E
 
If nothing else, a salutary lesson on using those ridiculous frame holders - should only be used for keeping the first frame out of the box safe whilst you do an inspection (after all the bees have been shaken off) but what's wrong in just propping up said frame (free of bees) up against the hive near the entrance?
 
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