Epipens, their use and possible dangers

I carry them because I might need them due to being allergic to bee stings. this doesn't stop me being a beekeeper and I have been more confident the more I go through the desensitisation process. 1 year to go then done I hope but will have to carry the pen for ever now, as there may just be the one time I need it.

I have my bee sites map ref on my phone stored as a text message ready to send to 999 as my sites are all off the beaten track and will need air ambulance due to difficulty in getting to them for the emergency service.

I must stop reading these threads as I get so annoyed when I see people saying the stupid things they say about carrying epi pens just in case they might meet someone that needs one. for a start there are some very big risks in using one. I have a heart condition and know that if I use it on myself it could cause a major issue with that.

I had IV adrenaline in hospital when having a very bad reaction and I was in resus for 6 hours with my blood pressure dropping dangerously low due to it. so just be careful you think u might be saving someone that doesn't need it and then kill them due to something else you don't know about.

dpearce4 said:

will have to carry the pen for ever now, as there may just be the one time I need it.

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As I have said elsewhere, I pray none of you ever have to face this in real life.

Its not about the law. Its about living with the loss a son. I think only someone who has experienced this loss can truly understand.

yes but I would never ever use it on someone else. I have been told by ED doctors that actually chewing on 2 piriton as an emergency is as good as an epi pen and much safer, so that is what I would get the person to do.

dpearce4 said:

I have been told by ED doctors that actually chewing on 2 piriton as an emergency is as good as an epi pen and much safer, so that is what I would get the person to do.

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Within a couple of minutes Simon was unconscious. When I said it was quick, I mean VERY QUICK.

One of the effects is confusion and disorientation. The brain gets starved of oxygen as the face loses colour and the lips turn blue. His last words to me were "Dad, I can't breathe!" as he gasped for air. I kept calling to him "Hold on Simon!" Of course, it was too late. I live with this memory every day. The last time I saw Simon alive there were 2 doctors and 2 nurses pumping adrenaline into his chest and trying to force air into his lungs.

Chewing piriton may be fine for light attacks but I am talking about emergency situations. Simons throat had closed. He couldn't have swallowed. Even if he could, this goes the slower route through the digestive system. Epi-pens are quicker. They go into the muscle and then to the blood system.

Epi-pens are for emergency situations and one will not be enough. Having seen someone die of anaphylaxis once, you could not go through it again. Nobody could. I certainly can't!

People need to understand that bee stings can kill. You don't have time to think. You have to recognise the signs, know what to do and be ready to act in an emergency. This means you have to be properly trained. You never know when you might be able to save a life.

B+. said:

. . . . . .

People need to understand that bee stings can kill
. . . . . You have to . . . . . .know what to do . . . . . .in an emergency.
This means you have to be properly trained. .

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You also need to understand that a mal-administered injection of epinephrine can also kill.

We live in the age of the expected cureall. To many go to the doctors expecting antibiotics for the mildest of infections, we are having the same attitude/expectations to the epipen!

Qualified opinion has been offered throughout this thread but unfortunately, some will remain unchanged when exposed to the simple facts and continue in ignorance.

MartinL said:

Qualified opinion has been offered throughout this thread but unfortunately, some will remain unchanged when exposed to the simple facts and continue in ignorance.

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This is both insulting and incorrect.

B+. said:

This is both insulting and incorrect.

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in your opinion,
but is that "qualified" or just a dangerous misconception/delusion?

MartinL said:

in your opinion,
but is that "qualified" or just a dangerous misconception/delusion?

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Are you kidding? It takes you 3 months to come back with that! If you watched your son die horribly infront of you wouldn't you find out why and do everything you could to prevent it from happening again?

But what if death was via mal administered drug controlled by prescription?

You can't assume that would happen. You could just as easily say: what if I stood there watching someone die while I had the means to prevent it?
Either way, I can assure you, you would never be the same again.

What EXACTLY is a desensitisation course? (Seriously)

I have been a beekeeper for 6 years, and thanks to my ridiculous obsession of attempting to tame cranky bees (the more I 'fix', the quicker more come along!), I get stung regularly... like most weeks.

Most times, they sting through the suit on the wrist or down the welly. Sometimes they hide until I take the veil off and get me in the car.
My record is 27 stings at once.

Usually the sting does not latch and is little more than a pinprick, but probably once a month I get a proper sting, which swells for a day or two.
I would have thought I was desensitised.

In Friday, I was stung 4 times on the neck. The result was a swollen neck and face, etes closed up and difficult to swallow.
I felt crappy and sore until sunday morning.

What would a desesitisation course have given me, that I have not already received over the last 6 years?

peteinwilts said:

What EXACTLY is a desensitisation course? (Seriously)

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Desensitisation involves a regular course of increasing bee venom injections. It is aimed at reducing the histimine reaction when the body is confronted with a challenge it has encountered before.

As you receive lots of stings, I doubt that you are at risk. You would know about it by now if you were. However, your family may be exposed to small amounts of bee venom when you wash your bee suit.

pete have a read of my sticky thread of what I went through when I did it, its in the main part of the forum.

doug

I take 4 hayfever tabs before I go into my hive forgot on sunday so now I have swollen fingers my own fault

I would like to think that over the last few years I have built up a resistance. However, I definitely had a number Anaphylaxis symptoms on Friday\Saturday.

•Swelling of throat and mouth
•Difficulty in swallowing or speaking
•Difficulty in breathing - due to severe asthma or throat swelling
•Hives anywhere on the body, especially large hives
•Generalised flushing of the skin
•Abdominal cramps, nausea and vomiting
•Sudden feeling of weakness (drop in blood pressure)
•Collapse and unconsciousness

... all of the above except collapse. Also, my eyes were almost completely closed

I can only imagine 'where' you are stung is equally important as the number of times you are stung. (if not more!)

I have read people purposefully sting themselves at clubs for desensitisation. Based on my experience, this could not possibly be effective and only injections by qualified medical people should be performed. (or am I just stating the obvious!)

I am not convinced that routinely taking hayfever tablets is good for you?

peteinwilts said:

I can only imagine 'where' you are stung is equally important as the number of times you are stung. (if not more!)

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Where you are stung or how many times is irrelevant. My son was stung once on the leg.
No doubt you suffered an allergic reaction but I son't think it was anaphylaxis. Anaphylaxis is a life threatening systemic reaction.

peteinwilts said:

I would like to think that over the last few years I have built up a resistance. However, I definitely had a number Anaphylaxis symptoms on Friday\Saturday.

•Swelling of throat and mouth
•Difficulty in swallowing or speaking
•Difficulty in breathing - due to severe asthma or throat swelling
•Hives anywhere on the body, especially large hives
•Generalised flushing of the skin
•Abdominal cramps, nausea and vomiting
•Sudden feeling of weakness (drop in blood pressure)
•Collapse and unconsciousness

... all of the above except collapse. Also, my eyes were almost completely closed

I can only imagine 'where' you are stung is equally important as the number of times you are stung. (if not more!)

I have read people purposefully sting themselves at clubs for desensitisation. Based on my experience, this could not possibly be effective and only injections by qualified medical people should be performed. (or am I just stating the obvious!)

I am not convinced that routinely taking hayfever tablets is good for you?

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Quack told me on the head, temple, forehead, there is not much flesh, so swelling does come down around the eyes, and causes them to close, due to fleshy tissues. (water etc)

I've heard some clubs do it.....I think it's so you know what to expect, not sure I've heard if anyone has Anaphylaxis, due to the sting though that would be terrible, I wonder what the legal implications of that are, I was deliberately stung!

My Doctor, told me that many people are taking hayfever tablets (anti-hystamines), they are well researched, and nobody appears to have having ill effects, this was a discussion I had with him about popping pills unnecessarily, e.g. like hayfever or anti-hystamines, before going to the bees :- HE TOLD ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA TO ME - DO IT!

That was after a severe "attack" by me bees! My eyes closed, (both), my head was sore, my arm blew up to the size of mitchelin man....

He said the reaction was completely normal, due to the amount of stings I had received, I still have the scar on my wrist, where ALL the bees stung me!

He prescribed steroids, and anti-histamines for that event!

peteinwilts said:

I would like to think that over the last few years I have built up a resistance. However, I definitely had a number Anaphylaxis symptoms on Friday\Saturday.

•Swelling of throat and mouth
•Difficulty in swallowing or speaking
•Difficulty in breathing - due to severe asthma or throat swelling
•Hives anywhere on the body, especially large hives
•Generalised flushing of the skin
•Abdominal cramps, nausea and vomiting
•Sudden feeling of weakness (drop in blood pressure)
•Collapse and unconsciousness

... all of the above except collapse. Also, my eyes were almost completely closed

I can only imagine 'where' you are stung is equally important as the number of times you are stung. (if not more!)

I have read people purposefully sting themselves at clubs for desensitisation. Based on my experience, this could not possibly be effective and only injections by qualified medical people should be performed. (or am I just stating the obvious!)

I am not convinced that routinely taking hayfever tablets is good for you?

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Pete I'm currently undergoing the desensitisation course which has had a real beneficial effect on my reactions to bee venom ie I'm not likely to die if I'm stung now
If your seriously having reactions to bee sting as you've quoted, your being totally irresponsible to yourself and your family not getting it sorted out, the hobby of keeping bees is not worth dying for and you ignorance of how the procedure of desensitising works is no excuse
I'm sorry if I've taken this out of context as I've only read the last page but what you wrote would give a real concern and what your doing is the same as playing Russian Roulette in my opinion

chickendave said:

If your seriously having reactions to bee sting as you've quoted, your being totally irresponsible to yourself and your family not getting it sorted out,

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Please Pete, get yourself checked by a medic, the symptoms you describe don't sound right. Getting checked won't take long and might show you are not allergic to bee venom, but might show you are. Desensitisation works.

We'd rather read about "PeteinWilts and his successful bee venom desentisation programme" in the newspaper than any awful alternative. Please don't take risks.

peteinwilts said:

I am not convinced that routinely taking hayfever tablets is good for you?

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Some people who suffer from bad hayfever take antishitamines every day during the pollen season, it doesn't do them any long term harm.

Taking an antihistamine before an inspection is something a lot of beekeepers do, as a matter of routine, but it isn't the same as taking them 'routinely' every day.

If you think you need to take antihistamine routinely (i.e. every day) it's worth checking the dose etc with a doctor. Antihistamine alone will not protect you from anaplylaxis.

My sympathies to B+.
Please all, stop messing about.
if you have any doubts, GET SOME MEDICAL ADVICE.
Anaphylaxis kills.
I have been a doctor forty years.
Thirty years ago, desensitisation injections were given by GP's for hay fever.(now seen as too dangerous in that setting).
I once gave one and followed all the right steps, keeping an eye on patient for 30minutes. All was OK. An hour later they were carried back into my surgery, moribund.
It was touch and go, but they survived.
This is potentially too serious a topic for street corner doctoring.