Temp controlled transport for brood & queen cells

What do others use when transporting queen cells or frames of brood from one site to another. Disease free brood.
Does anyone have plans for a temp controlled nuc box? Can you get a small thermostatically controlled heater or even warming cables that can go inside a nuc box or even a purpose built small box that either runs on a small battery or plugs into the cigarette lighter in the car?

Thanks

Avoid, if at all possible. Transfer within the apiary, not inter-apiary. Bio security issues.

If you must:

Eggs - no real bother at all.

Open brood - warm and particularly not allow to become dessicated. Your vehicle has a heater? Just turn it up if necessary! Often, in season, needs to be kept cooler!

Capped brood - in a warmed box, not usually needing a nuc box. Humidity is not so much of a problem.

I don't see any more problems than simple common sense actions overcome/avoid.

Depends on time and duration of transit. Pick time of day, dependent on weather and keep journeys short.

Don't complicate matters. Keep it simple. Think ahead.

Obtain a polystyrene organ transplant box or similar, something like one of the Payn*'s
polly nuc boxes would do
Purchase a probe thermometer on fleabuy about £5
warm to about 37 degrees about half a dozen ice cooler blocks and wrap in wet towels ( warm water)
I use this to transport eggs in a Nicot / Jenter cup kit cage system, and even queen cells.
Will maintain temp for six to ten hours, the thermo probe is for peace of mind, the wet towels to maintain humidity at around 70%RH.

Works for me

With the Low Flying Oliver on bio security. Bees should NEVER be moved between apiaries, let alone Countries!


James

I made a foam insert for an insulated cup. Something to hang a couple of queen cells through and above a folded paper towel, dampened with warm water. Maybe overkill for an hour or two but they emerged OK.,

Ours is a bigger version of Alan's suggestion:

An old wide-mouthed soup or laboratory Thermos flask. Cut thick foam sponge circles to fill the flask stacked on top of each other, punch holes in the upper ones to take queen cells in comfort. Fill to well below the level of the queen cells with water at circa 45 degrees, should keep the humidity up and the temperature at or around 35 degrees for the duration of the necessary trips between apiaries.

Calibrate the initial temperature of the water based on your own flask's insulation performance over the necessary duration and number of lid openings!

James Templer said:

With the Low Flying Oliver on bio security. Bees should NEVER be moved between apiaries,

Click to expand...

That's knackered the sale of mated queens then ...

LJ

Thanks for all the suggestions.
James suggestion is a good idea but I was hoping for a self contained box that I could either flick a switch or plug into the car cig lighter.
Ill have to try a few experiments
Alec

Carrycell keep queen cells at the right temperature using a 12v power supply.

Where can I get details of carrycell?
Anyone know what the heating element is in those food warming bags
Alec

Carrycell looks expensive.
I'll keep looking
Thanks

Eyeman said:

Where can I get details of carrycell?
Anyone know what the heating element is in those food warming bags
Alec

Click to expand...

Carricell with an i if you're searching.

They do a kit at 1495 NZD - with instructions of how to build it on the website if you want to see what a quality bit of kit is made from.

http://www.carricell.com/#!cabinet-incubator-kit/cwf5

Improvising with insulated cups and thermos flasks is free if you have the recycled bits. You can even revert to carrying coffee the rest of the year...

Iduplicate

I strongly suggest you read this paper

Tautz, J., Maier, S., Groh, C., Rössler, W., Brockmann, A., 2003. Behavioral performance in adult honey bees is influenced by the temperature experienced during their pupal development. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 100, 7343-7347


"We have qualitative evidence that exposing the pupae of bees to a temperature of 32°C may have a more far-reaching effect than producing poor dancers. Of the 80 bees that were treated at 32°C and introduced to the observation hive, only very few remained at the end of the 2-week period. The others apparently left the hive and never returned. One could speculate that these animals, seemingly perfectly able to carry out the in-hive nest duties, had trouble finding their way back to the hive after
undertaking their orientation flights, and, indeed, some of these bees were found in hives in the neighborhood of their own"

I strongly suggest you read this paper

Tautz, J., Maier, S., Groh, C., Rössler, W., Brockmann, A., 2003. Behavioral performance in adult honey bees is influenced by the temperature experienced during their pupal development. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 100, 7343-7347

Click to expand...

I've come across this and other papers before.
It's difficult to apply their findings to what I'm doing when transferring brood. The brood frames I transfer contain brood which is close to emergence and the period they are out of the hive is less than a couple of hours max.
These studies altered the brood temperature from when the brood was first capped to when the brood emerged ie. up to 12 days.
I'm not aware of any evidence that suggest shorter periods of brood cooling have any effects on the emerging bees.

Thanks
Alec

Eyeman said:

I've come across this and other papers before.
It's difficult to apply their findings to what I'm doing when transferring brood. The brood frames I transfer contain brood which is close to emergence and the period they are out of the hive is less than a couple of hours max.
These studies altered the brood temperature from when the brood was first capped to when the brood emerged ie. up to 12 days.
I'm not aware of any evidence that suggest shorter periods of brood cooling have any effects on the emerging bees.

Thanks
Alec

Click to expand...

but similarly I'm not aware of any evidence that suggest shorter periods of brood cooling DO NOT have any effects on the emerging bees.

derekm said:

I strongly suggest you read this paper

Tautz, J., Maier, S., Groh, C., Rössler, W., Brockmann, A., 2003. Behavioral performance in adult honey bees is influenced by the temperature experienced during their pupal development. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. 100, 7343-7347


"We have qualitative evidence that exposing the pupae of bees to a temperature of 32°C may have a more far-reaching effect than producing poor dancers. Of the 80 bees that were treated at 32°C and introduced to the observation hive, only very few remained at the end of the 2-week period. The others apparently left the hive and never returned. One could speculate that these animals, seemingly perfectly able to carry out the in-hive nest duties, had trouble finding their way back to the hive after
undertaking their orientation flights, and, indeed, some of these bees were found in hives in the neighborhood of their own"

Click to expand...

Indeed, interesting observation for the bulk of pupation. The Th0rnes (240V) incubator description says "35 deg C for pupae, 32 deg C for emerging queens." The New Zealanders build travel incubators which hold the queen cell at a "locked" 32°C, which suggests they are designed for late stage transport. Some suggest elsewhere that it was Ruttner who recommended 32°C for emerging queens, but not found any quantitative research.

derekm said:

but similarly I'm not aware of any evidence that suggest shorter periods of brood cooling DO NOT have any effects on the emerging bees.

Click to expand...

I would have thought temp becomes less of an issue after the final pupal molt and even less critical once the wings have unfurled.

mbc said:

I would have thought temp becomes less of an issue after the final pupal molt and even less critical once the wings have unfurled.

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Your logic is sound , However....

I have thought many times and used sound logic yet finally proved wrong on much, much safer ground than the timing of the neurological development of insects.

because such problems as highlighed in the paper have previously been by their very nature not observed by beekeepers, i would take the side of caution.

I prefer thermal physics, much safer to pontificate, and easier to experiment .

derekm said:

, However....
not observed by beekeepers,

Click to expand...

Practical observations of countless beekeepers would dispute this.