Will a new queen swarm in her first year?

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Joined
Jan 16, 2013
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Location
Cumbria
Hive Type
National
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Just leaving one of my hives to get on with emergence of new queen - it was emergency queen in this instance, maybe I squished her. Either way they were coming along nicely, and were originally a swarm I caught last year.

My mentor has over 40 years under his belt and and told me that a queen never swarms in year 1. Is this always the case? I vowed to keep a firm eye on them, given the fact they could be the smarmy type. In his opinion it just won't happen. I don't have enough experience to form an opinion, hopefully some of you can submit yours.....
 
Yes and no time, not usually but if cramped in a small space she will, more common is supersedure or with new beekeepers emergency QC's.
One thing to learn in beekeeping is to never say never, probability and sods law spring to mind
 
they will, I purchased one last year on the 29th of april and first week in june she swarmed I HAD 2 SUPERS ON THE HIVE
 
Emergency queens tend not to 'work'. My advice would probably have been to destroy emergency queen cells and unite, assuming the situation has been correctly read as 'emergency queen replacement'. And then make a split to make up your colony loss as and when one of your colonies is in swarming mode.
 
Lets have a think about this taking realistic examples. That means reality.

Huge colony requeened with a new laying queen from some sunny climate early in the year. Might the colony swarm? You bet it might.

Think about the typical new queen reared from an A/S in the UK. Mid April (at the earliest) and the brood nest is then free of new brood for about six weeks (if the queen gets mated at all). Padgen type A/S so few flying bees in the colony at emergence. Work out typical colony size by the time the queen has emerged, mated, started to lay, plus another three weeks. Typical June gap when forage might be short would assist build up , 'cos bees are brooding, not foraging. Income is poor, so lay rate should not be excessive. Will they swarm in the first season? You work it out. Likely any very early queens will be superceded due to poor performance, which would take up yet more time.

Now take the really strong colony with a queen that has already swarmed the previous season and has built up numbers early in the season. Will she swarm? Doubtful, as queens generally only swarm once. So they supercede and then swarm with the new queen.

Just some examples. Maybe you could think of a few more , like leaving a colony in a nuc hive, or not giving adequate space in a full hive. Beekeeper induced swarming.

Never say never with bees. The exception proves the rule, as they say.

Your colony? Emergency cells, so possibly a scrubby queen, possibly not a strong colony in the first place and likely your mentor was misunderstood by you when he was commenting on a new queen in a colony that was only 'coming along nicely' - whatever that means! Ie - a specific example. Yours are more likely to supercede that emergency queen, than swarm, this year I would suggest.

Anyhow never say never.

I would say 'unlikely to swarm in the firstbseason, given good management. That would generally mean not raising queens in situ until early/middle of May.

That is my opinion and please note it includes misunderstanding beeks, not actually listening to the context of advice given, as well as the reality of the developing nest.

Remember - there will be loads of advice given, now, that goes something like 'I read somewhere ...' and then quote third party reportings as gospel according to St Mellifera.
 
"I purchased one last year on the 29th of april and first week in june she swarmed"

toby - you are referring to year 2 here e.g. an overwintered nuc (although HM may be less than 1 year old) - you're extremely unlikely to get a mated new season queen that early, and certainly not one that has had long enough to lay up enough brood to a) prove herself and more importantly b) be of sellable quantity.
 
"I purchased one last year on the 29th of april
- you're extremely unlikely to get a mated new season queen that early, and certainly not one that has had long enough to lay up enough brood to a) prove herself and more importantly b) be of sellable quantity.

There seem to be enough suppliers of nucs who obviously don't think points a and b matter......may I be cynical enough to add, especially if they realise they are selling to a beginner....

I'll go and wash my mouth out.
 
My mentor has over 40 years under his belt and and told me that a queen never swarms in year 1. Is this always the case? I vowed to keep a firm eye on them, given the fact they could be the smarmy type. In his opinion it just won't happen.

A local newbeek has a mentor with a similar number of years 'experience'.

Newbeek was assured their nuc from last August won't swarm this year, because it was a late nuc, so they won't want any more equipment this year, so newbeek didn't buy anything in the sales.

Mentor offers advice by phone, has not seen the colony since last autumn. A fortnight ago said colony had brood on all but two frames in the brood box, and was still being given syrup.
 
"I purchased one last year on the 29th of april and first week in june she swarmed"

toby - you are referring to year 2 here e.g. an overwintered nuc (although HM may be less than 1 year old) - you're extremely unlikely to get a mated new season queen that early, and certainly not one that has had long enough to lay up enough brood to a) prove herself and more importantly b) be of sellable quantity.

WAS A YOUNG QUEEN MARKED RED PLACED IN A NUC WITH FRAME OF BROOD PURCHASED FROM SOMEONE ON HERE.. IT WAS THEN PLACED IN A NATIONAL BROOD BOX AND IT WAS FIRST WEEK OF JULY[not june sorry] THAT IT SWARMED. AND I HAD 2 SUPERS ON IT.. QUEENS CAN BE BOUGHT NOW THIS YEARS QUEENS
 
there seem to be enough suppliers of nucs who obviously don't think points a and b matter......may i be cynical enough to add, especially if they realise they are selling to a beginner....

I'll go and wash my mouth out.

as i say it was a young queen marked red from some one on this forum who is now selling this years queens. I got the june bit wrong. When i checked my book it was july the 4th the colonie had 2 supers on it
 
Educating Bees

Just as a point worth mentioning, you will be given loads of advice on here some valuable, some not so valuable and some plain misinformed. You will need to sort out the difference only experience will guide you. In my Ten Years I have yet to find one of my bees that can read, so they don't take heed of the forum and just do what bees do, when they want to do it. just when you don't want them to.:judge:
 

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