Scottish "beekeeper" "Eric McArthur" threatens to burn hives.

Think about it. The person who does try to carry a bomb through security checks is not likely to say there is a bomb in his luggage, is he? Unless he is with the majority, all saying the same thing. The real reason for the strictness is to deter idiots saying things like that during the flight.

oliver90owner said:

Think about it. The person who does try to carry a bomb through security checks is not likely to say there is a bomb in his luggage, is he?

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Isn't he? think about it - the main aim of bombing is to cause maximum disruption as well as destruction - just as easily achieved (probably more so) at the terminal than in the air.
Think of the coded PIRA warnings - or the MV Nisha, Christmas 2001 - b*ggered up my festivities along with a lot of others who didn't think they'd see their families, or the new year - no bomb was found though (although the cargo,sugar, treated in the right way would have made a nice little hole in London that Chrismas)

oliver90owner said:

Murray must be quaking in his boots. New zealand a couple of years ago and italian(?) this last season.

Where will it end?

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LOL....quaking in my boots, which are rather too heavily anchored to the ground. The NZ / Cirencester matter was 4 years ago now btw....dont time fly. The threat to 'torch the lot' was intemperate and unpleasant.
The bees were just great, and so far as I can see the world around there did NOT end as was widely predicted.

As regards Eric. Just let him be, he is a real black bee zealot and has laudable intentions, but does get far too carried away at times. If you read through what he actually has to say, the signal rather than the noise, he has much to offer and is a very informed man on some issues. We may or may not agree with his conclusions, but when he stays on message an avoids being emotive he is worth reading. His remarks about the public turning off honey that had been crawling with maggots due to SHB larvae is just a scare of his own creation. It has not happened elsewhere so why would it here? Maybe it is actually more a threat to bring the house down if imports continue, and SHB arrives.

I may have partly triggered his outburst when talking at Perth recently, when I repeated my view that I have no fear of SHB or Tropilaelaps, a viewpoint formed from discussion with several folk who have direct experience of SHB, and from papers that exist on Tropilaelaps. The SHB issue is being greatly inflamed by the writings and statements of people whose basic position is anti imports anyway. I used the term 'flag of convenience' as those making most noise have been those looking for a ban for years, and they have adopted SHB with zeal as vehicle to promote their cause. (Important! My views are personal, and in no way reflect the position of the BFA.) Apart from in the sub tropical areas of the USA, SHB has proven only to be a secondary pest of honey bees. Whilst in the lab it can (which does not mean all or even any actually will) pupate slowly at southern UK soil temps, in practice it seems it is not a very successful species in climate even close to as cool as ours. It might be something we see but a major pest? Not up here in the frozen north, and probably only in heated honey houses over most of the UK.

So why do the official bodies name it as a potentially serious pest for the UK? Listen to the sounds of panic on the various UK bee media, usually from those reacting to what others write than from actually researching the pests impact elsewhere, and you get some idea of a potential answer. They would be hung drawn and quartered if they were not seen to be taking it seriously. In simple terms they are minding their backs.

Huge subject, a lot of heat and little light. Just be aware that responsible importers are NOT about to do anything stupid (though what that is is a matter for individual opinion) and no-one wants to be the one who brought SHB to the UK and will do their level best to ensure it does not arrive.

However, you have to be realistic, and the chance of a trade ban that makes sure SHB does not enter is pretty well nil. I see the BBKA and others being pilloried for their position, now amended I believe, that the entry of SHB on fruit and herbs and in pot plants was the main risk. Superficially it has been portrayed as stupid, but look behind this and it is not so. Yes, of course a shipment of bees (not queens) is the single highest per shipment risk, but there are very few shipments from the infested area, practically nil, and even then its from Sicily where only two finds have been made linked back to Calabria this season. So the normal actually from this area is zero to one shipments per year. Some buy queens from the adjacent area (to the north) but I know nothing of the identity of the importer or the destination, though I know where they originate. However, many many shipments of fruit, veg, etc originate from that area, so the bigger risk *overall* IS indeed probably things other than bees.

None of this means we should not be vigilant, and if we had a chance in the past we would for sure not have wanted greater wax moth here (probably the nearest equivalent threat to SHB ) and it would be prudent to have measures designed to restrict its potential for entry. Same for SHB. We do not want it and we should try to avoid bringing it in, but beware of cures worse than the pest. Consider the number of colonies currently being destroyed (quite probably an exercise in futility) in Italy. Would the pest have killed so many?

ps...yes its winter.....and some rare time to myself, and a keyboard dangerously close to hand.

Nice to have you back ITLD and a very reasoned post i might add, i agree it is in my opinion most likely to arrive here in the UK within a fruit or soil consignments rather than bees or Queens, it is a hot topic at present with lots of misleading information and scaremongering going on

This fruit vs bees being the main risk for shb introduction begs the question why we haven't had it umpteen times before from the countless tonnes of fruit and veg imported from shb areas, south Africa and more recently the USA being major exporters to the uk.

mbc said:

This fruit vs bees being the main risk for shb introduction begs the question why we haven't had it umpteen times before from the countless tonnes of fruit and veg imported from shb areas, south Africa and more recently the USA being major exporters to the uk.

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Quite!

This fruit vs bees being the main risk for shb introduction begs the question why we haven't had it umpteen times before from the countless tonnes of fruit and veg imported from shb areas, south Africa and more recently the USA being major exporters to the uk.

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Maybe it has and couldn't manage to form a viable breeding population.

Norton said:

Maybe it has and couldn't manage to form a viable breeding population.

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Aye, maybe over and over, but we don't know this so it seems sensible to try and do everything within reason to keep it from ever forming a viable breeding population over here.

Norton said:

Maybe it has and couldn't manage to form a viable breeding population.

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I think that's clutching at straws.

What are the special environmental conditions in the UK that would thwart it?
Reports from the bee inspectorate in Ontario say it can survive their climate so what's so special about the UK?

The fact that fruit is harvested & transported in an un-ripened state makes it unattractive for the beetles. The are called hive beetles & not cantaloupe beetles for a reason

It got into Italy with fruit - dates. SO, stop importing fruit then.

IF any one is clutching at straws it is the "Black Bee Brigade" with their well known antics.

Norton said:

It got into Italy with fruit - dates. SO, stop importing fruit then.

IF any one is clutching at straws it is the "Black Bee Brigade" with their well known antics.

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Is that known for sure? If so, how is it known?

mbc said:

This fruit vs bees being the main risk for shb introduction begs the question why we haven't had it umpteen times before from the countless tonnes of fruit and veg imported from shb areas, south Africa and more recently the USA being major exporters to the uk.

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Its a South African pest. It has been known about for a VERY long time. It travels on fruit, bundled herbs, and other things.

Your question is a relevant one I have asked several times before but from a rather different angle. It is almost inevitable, given that over the last 150 years the UK has been the importer of the vast majority of South African fruit and veg, that SHB has been here before, possibly several times. It has not been found up to now, but it is only very recently that they have started looking for it at ports. To me the answer that is most likely to be true is that it MUST have been here before, but has failed to properly establish, far less prosper, in our climate. As has been the case in other places with other than subtropical or warmer climates.

I personally believe it to be an over exaggerated threat, and one that has landed as a gift into the laps of those who were anti imports anyway. I for one have no fear of this pest and am sure it is easily liveable with and even if it establishes will be a minor problem.

Norton said:

It got into Italy with fruit - dates. SO, stop importing fruit then.

IF any one is clutching at straws it is the "Black Bee Brigade" with their well known antics.

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If true I assume loose dates rather than prepacked. I don't think I've seen loose dates here - I stand to be corrected if they are available. Besides, I assume most fruit shipped here is chilled, under ripe and/or sealed in a 'protected athmosphere'. I also assume they are washed and graded before they hit the shelves too.

If SHB was only in the UK any bee product exports would be blocked immediately by other countries, including Cyprus. Last time I went there in the 90s a stewardess walked up and down the plane spraying insecticide in the cabin before anyone could get off!

Moggett said:

If true I assume loose dates rather than prepacked. I don't think I've seen loose dates here - I stand to be corrected if they are available. Besides, I assume most fruit shipped here is chilled, under ripe and/or sealed in a 'protected athmosphere'. I also assume they are washed and graded before they hit the shelves too

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Not at all. Raw dates on their natural stems are widely available in markets
specialising in products from the relevant countries. Some are shipped in chilled containers and thus under ripe of necessity due to long transit times, some airfreighted in nice and ripe ready for market. This is the case with fruit veg herbs plants etc from many parts, most definitely including SHB areas.

The ships carrying the fruit often also load ripe fruit as part of their stores in the place of origin of their unripe cargo, and frequently part of the cargo (small part and a problem for the load) ripens in transit. The opportunities for entry by the fruit/veg/herbs/pot plants route runs to thousands of potential entries per annum. On bees its single digits, normally nil. Referring of course to shipments originating in SHB areas.

Into the lions den said:

Its a South African pest. It has been known about for a VERY long time. It travels on fruit, bundled herbs, and other things.

Your question is a relevant one I have asked several times before but from a rather different angle. It is almost inevitable, given that over the last 150 years the UK has been the importer of the vast majority of South African fruit and veg, that SHB has been here before, possibly several times. It has not been found up to now, but it is only very recently that they have started looking for it at ports. To me the answer that is most likely to be true is that it MUST have been here before, but has failed to properly establish, far less prosper, in our climate. As has been the case in other places with other than subtropical or warmer climates.

I personally believe it to be an over exaggerated threat, and one that has landed as a gift into the laps of those who were anti imports anyway. I for one have no fear of this pest and am sure it is easily liveable with and even if it establishes will be a minor problem.

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Would this not also appy to other warmer countries in Europe where conditions are more favourable for establishing SHB? But it has only just got into Italy; if it was coming in often but not establishing in the UK surely it would also have established in other warmer parts of Europe much earlier?

farbee said:

Would this not also appy to other warmer countries in Europe where conditions are more favourable for establishing SHB? But it has only just got into Italy; if it was coming in often but not establishing in the UK surely it would also have established in other warmer parts of Europe much earlier?

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For many year South African products were almost unknown in these countries. The colonial ties to the UK meant most came here, though some may have been re-exported. The European states almost all had protectionist regimes in place too, as does the EU in general, which is why Spanish oranges for example have priority in the market over non EU origins.

Then there were the apartheid years, when almost all of the EU, bar the UK, refused South African produce.

They just had nothing like our exposure to the trade. I remember reading somewhere that up to the end of apartheid the UK had taken 80% of South African fruit and veg exports (other than to their immediate neighbours) and much of the rest went to Japan.

Into the lions den said:

I for one have no fear of this pest and am sure it is easily liveable with and even if it establishes will be a minor problem.

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Kim Flottum said more or less the same thing at the National convention last year - when SHB was mentioned he batted it off with one sentence along the lines of - seeing the way UK beekeepers coped with varroah, SHB will be no big deal and they'll take it in their stride.

Norton said:

It got into Italy with fruit - dates. SO, stop importing fruit then.

IF any one is clutching at straws it is the "Black Bee Brigade" with their well known antics.

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That's one theory, utterly unproven though and entirely wrong to be presented as fact.
Does it not occur to you that a possible motive for you to spread falsehood isn't hard to see and that this doesn't present you in the best light?

jenkinsbrynmair said:

Kim Flottum said more or less the same thing at the National convention last year - when SHB was mentioned he batted it off with one sentence along the lines of - seeing the way UK beekeepers coped with varroah, SHB will be no big deal and they'll take it in their stride.

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Did Kim witness the devastation caused by the initial wave of varroa and the swathes of beekeepers that didn't want to introduce man-made pesticides into their hives losing all their bees and leaving the game?
I'm sure we could cope, but I'd rather not have to.