Scottish "beekeeper" "Eric McArthur" threatens to burn hives.

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And it is no defence to claim you "did not mean it".
As a society we seem to have lost all sense of reason. When asked what was contained within his luggage, a bloke - no doubt pi$$ed-off with the behaviour of uniformed robots at an airport - answers 'a bomb', and promptly gets nicked under a terrorism act. Why ? For just saying that ...

There is the 'content' of what someone says, and then there is the underlying motivation for 'why' people say what they do.
Perhaps if we focussed more on the latter, instead of the former, we might develop some sympathy for the SBA poster's underlying frustrations with the legal status quo regarding unrestricted imports from within the EU.

Of course it was a dumb thing to say - but to consider this as a serious incitement to commit a crime is plain nuts - the guy was just 'beefing-off', that's all. It's only gained a wide exposure from the oxygen of publicity of threads such as this one. If his initial comment had simply been ignored, then the issue would have died a natural death within 24 hrs ...

LJ
 
As a society we seem to have lost all sense of reason. When asked what was contained within his luggage, a bloke - no doubt pi$$ed-off with the behaviour of uniformed robots at an airport - answers 'a bomb', and promptly gets nicked under a terrorism act. Why ? For just saying that ...

There is the 'content' of what someone says, and then there is the underlying motivation for 'why' people say what they do.
Perhaps if we focussed more on the latter, instead of the former, we might develop some sympathy for the SBA poster's underlying frustrations with the legal status quo regarding unrestricted imports from within the EU.

Of course it was a dumb thing to say - but to consider this as a serious incitement to commit a crime is plain nuts - the guy was just 'beefing-off', that's all. It's only gained a wide exposure from the oxygen of publicity of threads such as this one. If his initial comment had simply been ignored, then the issue would have died a natural death within 24 hrs ...

LJ

He was an ignorant moron.
Suppose he was telling the truth? The police would be accused - rightly - of gross negligence if it then exploded and killed hundreds.

These are NOT trivial issues: they can be matters of life or death.

How can YOU judge that the speaker is an idiot when you are there? You cannot.

You are speaking with the benefit of hindsight which is 20/20 vision.

He deserves everything he got..

We are not living a game or acting out a play.. the threats are real. And anyone who gives a false warning just makes the security services have a more difficult job.


You clearly do not realise that there are lot of simple minded or crazy people who read the internet and act on what it contains.. See jihadists as a terrible example.

I am not going to comment further except to say you appear to live in a perfect world where telepathy and knowledge of what people "intended" is commonplace. Try telling that to any judge. It will get you nowhere.

People are responsible for their own actions: if they are dumb and stupid, it is THEIR own fault.
I cannot reason with you if you don't think people are responsible for their own actions.
 
Of course it was a dumb thing to say - but to consider this as a serious incitement to commit a crime is plain nuts - the guy was just 'beefing-off', that's all. It's only gained a wide exposure from the oxygen of publicity of threads such as this one. If his initial comment had simply been ignored, then the issue would have died a natural death within 24 hrs ...

I can sympathise with the sentiment of this paragraph but would also point out that as a former editor of the 'Scottish Beekeeper' he's undoubtedly well aware of how to present things in writing without 'beefing-off'. Also, during the interim of making his post and that thread being locked he made no effort to clarify that he is in fact actually against any such behaviour being carried out, in fact, he went on to write:

I admire your pacifist views! But folk who import bees knowing that these bees could carry a deadly parasite, which could have a devastating effect on our fragile honey bee population and honey industry, are laughing at you - they have no social conscience, and deserve no consideration.
 
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Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on that sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas
 
No point in fighting the inevitable......unless you're a buddhist then you know better

I just thought there was something apt about the sentiment.

Rage, rage, against ,,,,,,,,,,,the idiotic apathy

- but no, it's probably all a fuss caused by amm Taliban selfishly inventing a bandwagon, and what's the point of crying anyway, it's probably spilt milk, or melons or bumblebees or red herrings and white elephants anyway. The flying piggs will soon smash the bee border pickets once the terror hungry media have spun their yarn.
 
... during the interim of making his post and that thread being locked he made no effort to clarify that he is in fact actually against any such behaviour being carried out, in fact, he went on to write:
Which is why I said "If his initial comment had simply been ignored, then the issue would have died a natural death within 24 hrs ..."
His initial comment of course being in the form of a casual remark:
Name and shame! - perhaps even the odd incendiary accident!!!
It is only because this unfortunate phrase was then focussed upon and taken up by a web policeman or two that it was expanded upon and has since become such common knowledge - and of course by courtesy of the originator of this thread who brought the information over here as an act of mischief.

LJ
 
I am not going to comment further except to say you appear to live in a perfect world ...
Well, I don't know what 'perfect' means anymore - as it's a concept I gave up believing in years ago. But I do live in a superb world - it's great - I absolutely love it !

And I am genuinely sorry to hear that your view of the world is so jaundiced. Hopefully it won't always be so.

LJ
 
Leaving (for the moment) Queen importation aside, can we all (or mostly) agree that restricting importation of colonies and packages of bees should slow the spread of this vile pestilence?

:iagree: tighter controls should be put in place

He was an ignorant moron.
Suppose he was telling the truth? The police would be accused - rightly - of gross negligence if it then exploded and killed hundreds.

These are NOT trivial issues: they can be matters of life or death.

How can YOU judge that the speaker is an idiot when you are there? You cannot.

You are speaking with the benefit of hindsight which is 20/20 vision.

He deserves everything he got..

We are not living a game or acting out a play.. the threats are real. And anyone who gives a false warning just makes the security services have a more difficult job.


You clearly do not realise that there are lot of simple minded or crazy people who read the internet and act on what it contains.. See jihadists as a terrible example.

I am not going to comment further except to say you appear to live in a perfect world where telepathy and knowledge of what people "intended" is commonplace. Try telling that to any judge. It will get you nowhere.

:iagree::iagree:
The mecganism of terrorism isn't destruction per se - it's the generating of terror - this then slowly impinges on our leading our lives without fear terrorists don't have to plant a bomb it's just the fear they may have -look how the fear of terrorism has already affected our lives - long queues at security, belts off, shoes off, no liquids in hand baggage an long queues again at passport control when you come back. But not one bomb! just the fear of it, so this thick witted moron states there's a bomb in his bag and spreads fear - thus he is a terrorist and deserves everything he got.
 
Well, it's only possible to form a fair opinion based on what he says.

As it stands, Eric himself could have staunched the issue instantly, by simply retracting his 'casual remark', a course of action which he chose not to follow.

Although the focus here has been on the one issue lets also remember that he was advocating a 'naming and shaming' campaign against people working within the law as it stands at present. I can't see that kind of action doing anything other than getting people's backs up and entrenching the opposing sides even further. Totally unproductive.

Anyway, I agree that since the thread has been locked it may as well be allowed to rest.
 
Well, it's only possible to form a fair opinion based on what he says.
.

A post by the gentleman in question on the Scottish forum;

"I note that Polish thread has been suspended - sorry about the stushie I caused. Threats to my favourite animal rather get my back up! Perhaps the latest info out of Eurioe might temper my action - I had read this quite edifying item in the Swiss Beekeeper mag., earlier No easy cure and the trapping procedures don't work well ! Situation hopeless!!

The Small Hive Beetle – What beekeepers need to know!
The SHB was initially discovered in September 2014, in southern Italy. This is no reason for panic, however it is a good reason to avoid importing bees! It is also important to find out as much as possible about the Natural History of the Beetle, which could soon reach Switzerland.

Benjamin Dainat and Jean-Daniel Charriere. Agroscope, Centre for Bee Research, National Reference Laboratory for Bee Diseases. Schwarzenburgstrasse 161, 3003 Bern- Liebefeld. Translated from the Schweizwerische Bienen Zeitung, issue 12/2014. PP 18 and 19. by A.E.McArthur MIL

The SHB Aethina tumida was discovered on the 5th September, 2014 in Calibria, in the harbour area of Rosarno. Since then multiple infestations have been located in bee colonies. The infected beehives were all burned. The ground in the immediate vicinity of the affected apiaries was treated with insecticide. The aim is to eliminate the Beetle as swiftly as possible. It is assumed that the Beetle if it becomes established will spread widely throughout Europe.

What is the Small Hive Beetle?

As its name implies – it is a beetle whose life cycle is dependent on honey bees and bumble bees. It can infest bee products especially drawn comb, as well as colonies of bees. The adult beetle is able to fly at least 10 km to find a new colony to infest. Its reproduction cycle is shown in Figure 1 and demonstrates that it is dependent on the bee, even although Aethina is able to feed and live on fruit. Its original habitat is the sub Saharan region of Africa. The globalisation of trade and beekeeping has allowed the beetle to spread to Australia, America and Canada and now to Europe.

Damage to the Bee Colony Small colonies are particularly vulnerable to the beetle. The honey comb is also vulnerable. The beetle lays her eggs in cracks and grooves in the hive and the larvae feed on pollen, brood and even honey. The honey in the combs can ferment due to the distribution of yeasts by the beetle. The SHB can also be a vector for AFB. In the advanced stage of infestation the colony can be weakened and the honey reserves can be totally inedible for both bees and humans. Very strong colonies are able to keep the beetle infestations in check and survive, however even such a colony cannot completely eliminate an infestation.
Prevention Measures

This acute problem demonstrates that even importing bees from neighbouring countries is dangerous. The risks from imports had already been recognised for AFB and EFB and this also applies for the SHB. The most important measure which can be taken regarding the SHB is to avoid importing bees! Every beekeeper who imports bees or bee products not only puts themselves at risk they endanger their whole region. Once the SHB is introduced its spread can be extremely rapid, as we have found to our cost already with Varroa

What can be done should the SHB enter Switzerland?

In order to inhibit spread it is important to cease migrating bees or moving bees and to ensure that no used equipment which can be occupied by the beetle is left lying around and not checked regularly. In cases of suspected infestation the incumbent Bee Inspectorate must be informed immediately and samples should be send to the Reference Laboratory in Liebefeld. The individual beekeeper must learn to practice the necessary biosecurity procedures habitually and intensely.

1 Small colonies which do not develop to more than 6 frames should be culled.

2 As soon as honey combs are filled and sealed they should be removed and centrifuged.

3 Only store a minimal amount of drawn comb and check this comb regularly for beetle activity.

4 Maintain a clean and tidy apiary, clean equipment, do not leave comb lying around especially sacrificial drone comb. Do not leave extracted honey comb out for the bees to clean.

The American collective experience demonstrates that it is important to eliminate weak colonies, since these are easily colonised by the beetle. This new parasite now forces us to maintain large powerful colonies of bees.

Nucleus formation and queen rearing takes on a much more important role in order to avoid importing bees.

Treatment against the SHB? Treatment using the presently available substances is not desirable, since the risk of residue buildup in the hive products is more than possible and the treatments could have a negative effect on colony heath and well being. Trapping is an alternative to chemotherapy. The present stage of trap design is inadequate to be fully effective against the beetle. However the present trap designs used in Australia and America are ideal for diagnosis and discovery of initial infestations.

A number of research studies have indicated that formic and acetic acid are effective against the larval and adult stages of the beetle in the comb.

How Great is the Danger? The discovery of the SHB in Italy is no cause for panic, it must however be taken very seriously. Especially important is the avoidance of importing either bees or second-hand beekeeping equipment. The best bee for any area is the local indigenous bee. This is must from now on!"

An informative piece with clear practical advice that, as it happens, with us being an island nation, is far more likely to be of long term use to us than the Swiss. Well done the Swiss centre for bee research, our nbu is once again shown as being toothless and ambivalent to the cause of our bees in the face of what they perceive as more important commercial considerations. The bbka might also take note of the lack of emphasis put on fruit too, unless it was always understood to be of little importance but politically expedient for them to highlight.
 
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A post by the gentleman in question on the Scottish forum;

Yes it was nice to see a reasoned post from him published yesterday.

-------------------------------​

It would be nice to know the assessment method and time scale being proposed by the Swiss when they write:

1 Small colonies which do not develop to more than 6 frames should be culled.

I assume that they're referring to a go-nowhere colony in a full size box which we'd be dealing with anyway and not a healthy five comb nuc in a six frame box... we're all going to be on a learning curve if the beetles get a foothold but everything I've read and been told through direct communication seems to point to having colonies that 'fit' the box they're in; not having unnecessary space left which can't be policed by the bees.
 
.......everything I've read and been told through direct communication seems to point to having colonies that 'fit' the box they're in; not having unnecessary space left which can't be policed by the bees.

When on the weak side yes, but other real life accounts of dealing with shb talk of being able to clean up and effectively "disinfect" boxes slimy and riddled with the beasts simply by plonking them on top of strong, thriving colonies and letting the bees do the work.
I totally agree that what works in practice in our conditions will be a steep learning curve should it come to that.
 
:The mecganism of terrorism isn't destruction per se - it's the generating of terror - this then slowly impinges on our leading our lives without fear terrorists don't have to plant a bomb it's just the fear they may have -look how the fear of terrorism has already affected our lives - long queues at security, belts off, shoes off, no liquids in hand baggage an long queues again at passport control when you come back. But not one bomb! just the fear of it, so this thick witted moron states there's a bomb in his bag and spreads fear - thus he is a terrorist and deserves everything he got.

If the idiot makes his statement loudly and in a public place, he deserves all he gets. But if he says it as a "joke" to the fellow checking his bags, that fellow should ask a few more questions, rather than reaching immediately for his handcuffs. Time was when police officers etc were expected to be more robust than the man in the street, and better able to withstand insulting, abusive or threatening behaviour.

That said, I appreciate JBM''s concern that my colleagues should not be starved of work.
 
If the idiot makes his statement loudly and in a public place, he deserves all he gets. But if he says it as a "joke" to the fellow checking his bags, that fellow should ask a few more questions, rather than reaching immediately for his handcuffs.

Ask a few questions - when there could be a few kilos of HE wired up to a remote trigger?! let's get real here We're not talking officers of the law are we? (just seems a mistake most thickoes make) but security guards - they have the minimum of training required for the job (and the minimum of wage) and their instructions are - the least doubt - escalate to the next level - bomb threats are no joking mater in this day and age - these people (and TBH I don't have much time for them) are under pressure to process hundreds of passengers an hour without delay or suffer even more abuse, I'd have done exactly the same thing.

Time was when police officers etc were expected to be more robust than the man in the street, and better able to withstand insulting, abusive or threatening behaviour.
Unfortunately with an ambulance chasing lawyer looking for a quick killing around everycorner they have to be so 'PC' they can't afford to be as robust anymore
 
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If the idiot makes his statement loudly and in a public place, he deserves all he gets. But if he says it as a "joke" to the fellow checking his bags, that fellow should ask a few more questions, rather than reaching immediately for his handcuffs. Time was when police officers etc were expected to be more robust than the man in the street, and better able to withstand insulting, abusive or threatening behaviour.

That said, I appreciate JBM''s concern that my colleagues should not be starved of work.

And when a few more idiots realise they can say " bomb" and get off "as it's a joke".. and the police have to deal with a lot of them and miss one bomber as a result, can you imagine what the reaction would be.

(I can imagine the parliamentary Committee investigating after the event and saying "and why did you not discourage these idiots by making an example of a few of them to discourage the others?")

The policy clearly is right: treat idiots as severely as possible within the law to discourage other idiots... it's common sense..
 
When on the weak side yes, but other real life accounts of dealing with shb talk of being able to clean up and effectively "disinfect" boxes slimy and riddled with the beasts simply by plonking them on top of strong, thriving colonies and letting the bees do the work.
I totally agree that what works in practice in our conditions will be a steep learning curve should it come to that.

I was thinking, as I wrote my post, of some NZ Italians we had some years ago, big populations (they'd certainly fall within the usual idea of what constitutes a strong colony) but if I was going to hazard a guess I reckon they'd have rolled over at the sight of a single beetle. At least, they didn't show much grit where anything else was concerned.

Before anyone jumps on this, I'm not suggesting that all NZ Italians are the same.
 
One wonders from reading all of this what would have been the result of the Varroa infestation we all still suffer ( except for Colonsay, The Isle Of Man and the Scillies)
had we had the Internet and informative networks such as the Beekeepers Forum back then? (1992)

Tragic it seems that at some point someone will inadvertently import SHB as some one did with Varroa?

Not suggesting that burning your neighbors hives will sole any problems, but banning imports may?



James
 
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