Vapourising Oxalic Acid

A few whimsical thoughts:
1. I wonder how the toxicological data on vaporised OA are obtained -exposing chimpanzees to increasing concentrations of vapour?
2. I realise Homo sapiens is rather distantly related to Apis melifera, nevertheless many of the basic biochemical mechanisms at a cellular level are, I believe, common to all members of the animal kingdom. Thus it surprises me that this OA vapour is stated to be harmful to man if inhaled in very low concentration, but not to bees despite a presumably much higher concentration during treatment.
.........Sorry to interrupt the main thrust of this thread.........

Are we talking about vapourising 2 grams of oxalic acid crystals or 2kg ?
The cloud of vapour from 2 grams is very small and 95% is in your hive.
Yes it is dangerous if exposed to it but lets put it in perspective.

Believe me, it's going to be a nasty lung irritant, as others here are now bored with pointing out. On the mask point, the "vapour" is a particulate auspension in air, not gaseous form.

Add: the skin on my fingers never recovered from a single exposure to lacquer thinners. One exposure can last a lifetime, and if it's your lungs... So yes you have to work at it but it's a good idea not to.

Karsal said:

Are we talking about vapourising 2 grams of oxalic acid crystals or 2kg ?
The cloud of vapour from 2 grams is very small and 95% is in your hive.
Yes it is dangerous if exposed to it but lets put it in perspective.

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MartinL said:

Key point to remember here is that most "masks" would be ineffective.

They are usually designed to filter solids, (ie saw-dust) NOT Gaseous Poisons!

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is it vapour? i would say as the boiling/melting point is 160c /102c and it sublimates then at 5c -10c air temp it is a suspended solid and easily filtered out by a FffP2 or FFP3 mask

Did you know ...

that Oxalic Acid dihydrate is used as a refrigerant medium in the tail warning radar pod of the F15 fighter jet, as the temperatures reached during high speed manoeuvres are too high for freon to cope with.

Oxalic Acid dihydrate was chosen as it has the highest known heat of fusion per unit weight of any material within the range of 2 deg C and 100 deg C.

Now there is something to really bore guests with at a dinner party ...

LJ

Little John said:

Did you know ...

that Oxalic Acid dihydrate is used as a refrigerant medium in the tail warning radar pod of the F15 fighter jet, as the temperatures reached during high speed manoeuvres are too high for freon to cope with.

Oxalic Acid dihydrate was chosen as it has the highest known heat of fusion per unit weight of any material within the range of 2 deg C and 100 deg C.

Now there is something to really bore guests with at a dinner party ...

LJ

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And I thought I could bore for England ! ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Little John said:

Did you know ...

that Oxalic Acid dihydrate is used as a refrigerant medium in the tail warning radar pod of the F15 fighter jet, as the temperatures reached during high speed manoeuvres are too high for freon to cope with.

Oxalic Acid dihydrate was chosen as it has the highest known heat of fusion per unit weight of any material within the range of 2 deg C and 100 deg C.

Now there is something to really bore guests with at a dinner party ...

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OK, so for argument's sake, say I need to stock some ammunition. How is a sublimating crystal like oxalic used?

alanf said:

OK, so for argument's sake, say I need to stock some ammunition. How is a sublimating crystal like oxalic used?

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Oooo - couldn't possibly tell you that ! It's all terribly 'hush-hush' - or, at least - it might be ...

One desk at the U.S. Department of the Air Force reveals all (and I quote):

"Inclusion of this material in a heat sink assembly is disclosed and claimed in US patent application 665,599, etc etc ..."

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But from another desk (no doubt one having had CIA training):

"A suitable phase change material for a particular tail warning radar pod-enclosed assembly presently under construction for installation on an F15 fighter is believed to be oxalic acid dihydrate, etc etc ..."

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That's my boy - sow some seeds of doubt - keep the Ruskies guessing ...

LJ

Anyone thinking of vaporising oxalic, read this
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0474.html

Anyone thinking of feeding their bees sugar, read this.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0574.html

Nice one Hivemaker. Treated our 5 hives using a Varrox and Oxalic acid today but used plenty of PPE.

Amari said:

I realise Homo sapiens is rather distantly related to Apis melifera, nevertheless many of the basic biochemical mechanisms at a cellular level are, I believe, common to all members of the animal kingdom.

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And indeed, many are also common to members of the plant kingdom, too ...

Thus it surprises me that this OA vapour is stated to be harmful to man if inhaled in very low concentration, but not to bees despite a presumably much higher concentration during treatment.

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They don't have respiratory tracts lined with sensitive ciliated endothelial cells - nor lungs, nor a circulatory system, lymphatic system, reticulo-endothelial system - nor quite a few other bits and pieces that we have. In fact, a large number of biochemical metabolic pathways are about all we've got in common with insects (and plants, of course).

And let's not forget fish - again, they have much the same biochemistry as we do - but quite different systems of breathing. Again, it is our sensitive respiratory pathways which are the primary cause of (dry) drowning.

The day that bees come barrelling out of the hive coughing and spluttering and looking indignant is the day I'll stop using OA.

LJ

Persuasively put Little John.

Hivemaker. said:

Anyone thinking of feeding their bees sugar, read this.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0574.html

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MY god - can't let SWMBO see that or I'll never see sugar in my tea/coffee again, let alone on my cornflakes. Whose side are you on - not mine?

ValMc said:

Nice one Hivemaker. Treated our 5 hives using a Varrox and Oxalic acid today but used plenty of PPE.

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Did you monitor after you did the deed to see what sort of mite drop you were getting?

We have not had a great deal of cold weather down here near Plymouth but I suppose you have to bite the bullet some time.

CVB

charlievictorbravo said:

We have not had a great deal of cold weather down here near Plymouth but I suppose you have to bite the bullet some time.

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No, you don't have to, Charlie.

Hivemaker. said:

No, you don't have to, Charlie.

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Love it. So simple.

Over two days the count on our five hives ranged from around 60 on one hive, around 250 on three and one had a drop of 500-600.

Hivemaker. said:

No, you don't have to, Charlie.

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My phrase "I suppose you have to bite the bullet some time." was shorthand for "if you've monitored your mite load and are sure you have a significant number of mites, you have to decide the best time to use your nice shiny Varrox machine"

I've just completed a three day monitor on my two hives and I have a zero and a one mite drop in that time - spot the mite on the attached photo of the two monitoring boards. For me that means I don't need to do anything with Oxalic Acid anytime soon.

CVB

Can I tag a question onto this thread?
Shiny new Varrox is just sitting on the window sill. Before I do this.....1g for a 14 x 12 box and 2g for 14 x 12 with nadired super......is that right?