Vapourising Oxalic Acid

Erichalfbee said:

Can I tag a question onto this thread?
Shiny new Varrox is just sitting on the window sill. Before I do this.....1g for a 14 x 12 box and 2g for 14 x 12 with nadired super......is that right?

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The molecular weight would depend upon weather the oxallic acid being utilised was anhydrous or not.
I use 2g of ( The packet from the chandlers says) 100 % pure hydrate?
The Varrox come with instructions, but I lost them years back!

The books say to treat when there is no brood as to kill all the phoretic mites, since the variety of honeybees and local environments / weather vary so much in the UK, my guess is there is no rule of thumb, especially in super insulated hives and even heated ones so common today!
My sisters " Ferrari " honeybee colonies have brood all year around, my local black seem to slow down to a stop at the end od Advent and get going during Ephiphany!

James

James Templer said:

The molecular weight would depend upon weather the oxallic acid being utilised was anhydrous or not.
I use 2g of ( The packet from the chandlers says) 100 % pure hydrate?
The Varrox come with instructions, but I lost them years back!

The books say to treat when there is no brood as to kill all the phoretic mites, since the variety of honeybees and local environments / weather vary so much in the UK, my guess is there is no rule of thumb, especially in super insulated hives and even heated ones so common today!
My sisters " Ferrari " honeybee colonies have brood all year around, my local black seem to slow down to a stop at the end od Advent and get going during Ephiphany!

James

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1g wont be enough on a jumbo National (14x12)

i use 2.25g as per 14x12 with varox below the OMF being the weight used by LASI in their tests (Dadant) as most effective and sublimate for 3min 15sec, then leave for 2 mins before removing varrox, reseal and leave for a further 10 minutes ( all as per LASI best test result)

Varrox instruction infer 2g in the front entrance for a 14x12 being similar size to the dadant

Not that I am about to try this as I know people have worked out the best ways to do apply this, but would an atomiser work for using OA so that rather than trickling it you could pump spray it using something like a perfume bottle? Just something I haven't seen mentioned & if it would be an option as I would think it would cover more bees than a trickle?

MuswellMetro said:

1g wont be enough on a jumbo National (14x12)

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Thanks MM
I'll try 2 on the single brood box and 2.5 on the 14 x 12 plus nadired shallows

jonnybeegood said:

Not that I am about to try this as I know people have worked out the best ways to do apply this, but would an atomiser work for using OA so that rather than trickling it you could pump spray it using something like a perfume bottle? Just something I haven't seen mentioned & if it would be an option as I would think it would cover more bees than a trickle?

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Somebody who knows what they're talking about will be along shortly but in the meantime, I suspect the flaw in using a atomising spray is that it would take too long to do. so you'd have very cold bees at the end of spraying the oxalic solution. One of the advantages of tricking is that it can be done quite quickly. Sublimation is better still because the top of the hive is not opened - no heat loss through convection - everything is done from underneath so no heat lost and they get some nice warm oxalic acid sublimate to breath in for a quarter of an hour.

The alternative is to check to see what mite load you have and if its low, you don't need to do anything! Lucky me!

CVB

charlievictorbravo said:

Somebody who knows what they're talking about will be along shortly but in the meantime, I suspect the flaw in using a atomising spray is that it would take too long to do. so you'd have very cold bees at the end of spraying the oxalic solution. One of the advantages of tricking is that it can be done quite quickly. Sublimation is better still because the top of the hive is not opened - no heat loss through convection - everything is done from underneath so no heat lost and they get some nice warm oxalic acid sublimate to breath in for a quarter of an hour.
The alternative is to check to see what mite load you have and if its low, you don't need to do anything! Lucky me!CVB

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Don't bet on it. The buggers are there like it or not and they will multiply quickly come spring build-up.

So out of curiosity is a 3M 4279 EN405:2001 FFABEK1P3D suitable for use with Oxalic Acid vaporizing ?

einsteinagogo said:

So out of curiosity is a 3M 4279 EN405:2001 FFABEK1P3D suitable for use with Oxalic Acid vaporizing ?

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Yes, going by the description, but you also need eye protection, and this mask may hinder the fitting of the eye protection, better off with a full face mask.

But if you do use a mask like this at least your respiratory system should be okay, but you may go blind or your eyeballs drop out.

Hivemaker. said:

Yes, going by the description, but you also need eye protection, and this mask may hinder the fitting of the eye protection, better off with a full face mask.

But if you do use a mask like this at least your respiratory system should be okay, but you may go blind or your eyeballs drop out.

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thanks, I was just curious, because it's new in box, and was being thrown out today from our office!

I thought I snag it just in case, it comes in handy for something....

I don't have a Varrox, but with all this talk, was wondering if it was suitable!

I may where this one when using MAQS, because I don't like the smell or formic acid either!

Arfermo said:

Don't bet on it. The buggers are there like it or not and they will multiply quickly come spring build-up.

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I did quite a late and long Thymol treatment so my 1 mite and 0 mites in three days natural mite drops was not a surprise. Here's what the Beebase Varroa calculator said about my colony with 1 mite dropped:
Average Daily Mite Fall = 0.3 varroa mites
The number of days over which you collected/counted mites is less than seven. This might give a poor estimate of mite numbers, so the predictions must be treated with caution.Estimated number of adult varroa mites in the colony = between 35 and 130
Treatment is recommended in about 6 to 8 months time (counting from day of first monitoring).
ROUGH ESTIMATE:
Monitoring mite-fall around the start or end of the brood rearing season can give poor accuracy.
Results should be treated with caution.

Whilst I might understand your scepticism about natural mite drop figures and how accurately they represent the real situation in the hive, Oxalic Acid treatment is quite aggressive and can be justified if you have a large mite load but with my low numbers (1 in 3 days and 0 in 3 days) I will not treat this winter despite having bought the OA a couple of months ago.
Prophylactic treatment is rarely beneficial and can be positively disadvantageous (page 404, BBKA News, December 2014, Ruth and Ian Homer). I'll take that Homer sapiens advice for the time being.

CVB

I was planning on using oxalic after christmas but doing a mite drop check i am now thinking differently, i put the boards under the hive, forgot i'd done it & they were there for 3days. On checking this morning there was quite a bit of wax, bits of pollen etc in different parts of both boards where the bees are but i only counted 2 on one board & 5 on the other, should i leave it untill spring & treat with thymol?

I wouldn't treat with oxalic and no real need to use thymol in the spring .....but do a count then.

I vaporised my hives today and nearly set fire to one

einsteinagogo said:

So out of curiosity is a 3M 4279 EN405:2001 FFABEK1P3D suitable for use with Oxalic Acid vaporizing ?

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The Varrox documentation and a couple of research papers specify FFP3 level filters. That seems to be a standard for one use masks. The best are built to be used over a full shift so comfortable to wear for a while. I've been using a 3M 8835 which fits under goggle type eye protection, or it does for me for an hour or so wearing them at a time with the Varrox. Box of 5 under 20 quid on eBay.

Hivemaker. said:

Yes, going by the description, but you also need eye protection, and this mask may hinder the fitting of the eye protection, better off with a full face mask.

But if you do use a mask like this at least your respiratory system should be okay, but you may go blind or your eyeballs drop out.

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NASA Space programme on the back burner so you are in with a chance they may have some redundant spacesuits too!!.

Erichalfbee said:

...

I vaporised my hives today ...

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jonnybeegood said:

I was planning on using oxalic after christmas but doing a mite drop check i am now thinking differently, i put the boards under the hive, forgot i'd done it & they were there for 3days. On checking this morning there was quite a bit of wax, bits of pollen etc in different parts of both boards where the bees are but i only counted 2 on one board & 5 on the other, should i leave it untill spring & treat with thymol?

Click to expand...

Thymol not the thing to use when the spring build-up has already started - possibly started in late Jan. Oxalic only at that point in time unless you want to spoil the possibility of a useful crop from a busy hive of scavengers.

derekm said:

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Oh....you know what I mean!!!