Stings, immunity, and NSAIDS

There have been a number of threads concerning bee stings and immunity recently.

There are articles and discussion online about NSAID painkillers/anti-inflammatories, especially the stronger ones, affecting immunity. Apparently beta blockers can also affect the reaction to stings.

My previously good immunity has certainly been destroyed by taking prescription Diclofenac tablets to treat arthritis, and I am now back to a normal reaction to stings.

Many older folks here will be taking these types of medication. I am interested to hear the experience of other Bee-Botherers, and whether they think that their reaction to stings has been affected.

There is a paper on the net that says that a very high number of people stung by bees causing anaphylaxis have taken NSAID's in the 24 hours before.

As I run every second day, and occasionally get very sore (old age), I occasionally take ibuprofen. When I know I'll be beekeeping in the next couple of days and hence likely to be stung, I become brave and bear the pain without taking any painkillers. (I smother the affected area instead with Voltorol).

Seems a sensible precaution..

MAAF

"I smother the affected area instead with Voltorol"

and what pray is voltarol?

admittedly the systemic dose will be much reduced but......

I can answer that question. Its topical diclofenac. I used to use it before I needed more heavy-duty oral doses...

viridens said:

There have been a number of threads concerning bee stings and immunity recently.

There are articles and discussion online about NSAID painkillers/anti-inflammatories, especially the stronger ones, affecting immunity. Apparently beta blockers can also affect the reaction to stings.

My previously good immunity has certainly been destroyed by taking prescription Diclofenac tablets to treat arthritis, and I am now back to a normal reaction to stings.

Many older folks here will be taking these types of medication. I am interested to hear the experience of other Bee-Botherers, and whether they think that their reaction to stings has been affected.

Click to expand...

Always the awkward one . My reactions to bee stings (always strong local ones) have completely stopped since I was prescribed Beta-blockers and Ace inhibitors . Could be a coincidence but this is what happened after 12/15 years of such intolerance to bee stings ???

John Wilkinson

madasafish said:

As I run every second day, and occasionally get very sore (old age), I occasionally take ibuprofen. When I know I'll be beekeeping in the next couple of days and hence likely to be stung, I become brave and bear the pain without taking any painkillers. (I smother the affected area instead with Voltorol).

Seems a sensible precaution..

Click to expand...

Try the Jointace glucosamine and chondroitin gel. It is magic and smells good, too.

I thought I was suffering the 'Ramipril cough' when stung, but with the last couple stings, I have not taken antihistamines and the cough has not been evident. Not sure yet which combination is causing it for sure, but intend to keep a note of it. The side effects are certainly there.

RAB

oliver90owner said:

I thought I was suffering the 'Ramipril cough' when stung, but with the last couple stings, I have not taken antihistamines and the cough has not been evident. Not sure yet which combination is causing it for sure, but intend to keep a note of it. The side effects are certainly there.

RAB

Click to expand...

cant take Ramipril, it gave me Bad Titinus

ACE inhibitors seem to abate any swelling i use to get, have never felt stings just swelled up

MuswellMetro said:

cant take Ramipril, it gave me Bad Titinus

ACE inhibitors seem to abate any swelling i use to get, have never felt stings just swelled up

Click to expand...

Er...do you mean Tinitus? I have a picture in my mind.....

psafloyd said:

Try the Jointace glucosamine and chondroitin gel. It is magic and smells good, too.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I will do.

Voltarol is good but expensive... Oh I see Jointace is expensive as well.. Oh well who said Beekeeping was cheap?

(running is a LOT cheaper).

FWIW

I use Neurophen and Diclophenic and neither that I am aware of make any odds to my reaction to stings.

As for thingyaids what on earth are they? I am well up on my beekeeping acronyms but if someone wants to discuss other topics I would prefer it if they had the thought to spell it out at the beginning and there after use the short hand. As is the normal convention.

PH

NON STEROIDAL ANTI-INFLAMMATORY DRUGS (ie aspirin, ibuprofen, diclofenac etc etc).

As is the normal convention

From post#1:

NSAID painkillers/anti-inflammatories, especially the stronger ones, affecting immunity.

Goggle would have been your friend, but apart from actually spelling it out, post #1 did give the context fairly clearly. Quite a topical subject of late.

RAB

"Goggle would have been your friend"

unless you are a high ranking US military official or other person of interest to chinese authorities of course!!!!

As I understand it, it's dangerous to take the modern beta-blockers if you are a beekeeper but only because the treatment for anaphalactic shock doesnt work.
The older beta blockers such as propranalol are OK though.

Taking Ibuprofen can increase the risk of having an anaphalactic incident.

Do I have this right? If so, shouldnt this info be given a higher profile on beginner courses?

"As I understand it, it's dangerous to take the modern beta-blockers if you are a beekeeper but only because the treatment for anaphalactic shock doesnt work.
The older beta blockers such as propranalol are OK though."

NO.

all beta blockers will depress the natural adrenergic response to the insult and hence potentially make reactions worse.

The high dose adrenaline used to treat AS or to resuscitate should be more than enough to counter the antagonistic effect of the beta blockers.

Poly Hive said:

FWIW

I use Neurophen and Diclophenic and neither that I am aware of make any odds to my reaction to stings.

PH

Click to expand...

Me too.
But now I am worried

drstitson said:

NON STEROIDAL ANTI-INFLAMMATORY DRUGS (ie aspirin, ibuprofen, diclofenac etc etc).

Click to expand...

It is also worth noting that paracetamol is not an NSAID.

Some more context;

• NSAIDS act on the immune system to suppress inflammation.
• Immunity to bee stings should build up as your immune system learns how to handle the toxins in bee venom.
• Rheumatoid and Psoriatic (my type) Arthritis are autoimmune disorders - your immune system attacks where it should protect.
• There is folk medicine tradition of bee stings as treatment for arthritis, and some modern folks PAY for bee sting/ bee venom therapy to help with this and other health problems

Of course there is no such thing as a British standard bee sting, and the severity of a sting also depends on where you are stung and whether you scrape the sting out quickly. Modern suits and gear mean that there are many new-ish beeks who are not stung often enough (if ever!) to develop immunity.

I have always received a fair number of stings each year, these caused initial pain and little else. Then I was prescribed diclofenac,and before long, I found that stings now caused swelling and itching for maybe days afterwards. I remain interested to hear whether others have had the same experience.

I have been told that sting immunity has been lost when a course of NSAIDs was taken after surgery or sports injury, and built up again after it had ended.

I realise that many folks reach for aspirin or ibuprofen to relieve the pain after a sting, and wonder if maybe this is the wrong thing to do if it could stop immunity developing?


I have only read about the beta blocker connection - I don't need those particular pills (yet? ).

As stated earlier ! take lisinopril 10g daily and bisoprolol 2.5g daily, coincidently since being on this regime ,bee stings trouble me not .
I haven't a clue which medication is the likely if indeed either could be the catalyst ?

John Wilkinson