Varrox under OMF Floor ? dose 1.0g or 1.5g ?

Nige.Coll said:

The tiny spoon is around 1 gram.

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As supplied by Agrinova it came with a small half spherical spoon in clear plastic. A few trials showed the oxalic crystals has a structure that doesn't pack uniformly. One level scoop was from 1.2 to 2.2 grams. Your scoops may vary but I like to be consistent, so the practice this year has been to pre-weigh 2g into folds of foil and store in a clip top plastic box. There is a trace left on the foil, but less than 0.1g. It's quick to reload between hives and no problem if there's a spot of rain. Plus if you know how many doses you started with, it's obvious if a hive is missed.

By the way, if anyone follows the business pages, the Swiss Franc had a recent rise. Expect anything Swiss made to be even more expensive soon.

Heather said:

I was vaporising and bought the small container of OA dihydrate, that came with a tiny plastic spoon. P.....s said 1 scoop is all required, and I followed instructions. but after 24 hrs there is either no drop or minimal (10 - 15 varroa) which makes me think this was inadequate..
Any thoughts?
Doubt my bees THAT clean.

My treatment was completed within 1 minute.

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By completed within 1 minute what do you mean? That the vaporiser was attached to the battery for one minute?

No,
From when sizzling powder was introduced to base of hive, insulation packed around, and then removed when all remnants of powder reduced to nil.
Preparation took longer...

Does anyone submimate paynes poly hives with the black powder coated mesh floors ? Does the OA affect the powder coating ?

I did one, through the entrance. No obvious effect on the mesh.
You can't sublimate under OMF without modifications as the inspection tray sits too high.
I'm replacing my one P floor with a wooden one this spring

pargyle said:

Does anyone submimate paynes poly hives with the black powder coated mesh floors ? Does the OA affect the powder coating ?

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I do and form underneath the floor. Just had a look and although there is still some feint residue on the mesh, there appears to be no damage to the mesh at present, this is after about 6 treatments in total to the same area (no signs of bare metal or rust). The trouble is, as the mesh is 'recessed' into the hive floor, I cannot get the pan close enough to the mesh to reduce the condensation as much as I would like. If I used a shim as mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the handle would touch the poly base and melt it and I don't know if the fumes of 'burning' poly would poison the bees. So I'm not sure if 'under' mesh vaporising is the best option, although it still definitely works.
Hope this makes sense.

I did Pargyle. I also did a dummy run on an empty hive and I think I might have taken a photo of the floor afterwards. I'll see if I can find it.

Erichalfbee - I knocked something really simple together so that I could treat from under my OMF, I suspect identical to midnight sun's below. Photo here

Erichalfbee said:

I did one, through the entrance. No obvious effect on the mesh.
You can't sublimate under OMF without modifications as the inspection tray sits too high.I'm replacing my one P floor with a wooden one this spring

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Hi ericA
I made another inspection tray out of scrap ply, but 'stepped down' the centre of the floor with 'shims' to drop it enough to create the necessary clearance.
So looking from the back, end on, the profile has a 'dog leg' sort of look at each side that slides into the guides on the hive floor. It needn't be fancy as it's only used for this job and not a permanent use. Hope this gives you some help.

Heather said:

No,
From when sizzling powder was introduced to base of hive, insulation packed around, and then removed when all remnants of powder reduced to nil.
Preparation took longer...

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I hope I'm reading your post incorrectly. You seem to be saying that you couple the power up to the Varrox before you place it into the hive.
This is a bit dodgy as the Oxalic will be sublimating before you put it into the hive and could be dangerous if it 'spits' out onto your skin. Also you will be losing some of the vapour before you get it into the hive. (I hope you have your mask on as well while you are doing this.)
You are supposed to measure the Oxalic into the 'pan' with the spoon provided, then place it in it's position in the hive. After you have 'sealed' the hive with cloth or similar, then you are supposed to connect the Varrox to your power supply. After 11/2 mins. you disconnect the power (or battery) and then leave it a further 2 mins in the hive if I remember correctly.
After this time you remove it from the hive and 'quench the still hot pan in cold water. (this is so when you do your next 'fill' of the pan there is no residual heat to start the sublimation off prematurely and 'gas' yourself or just lose Oxalic as I described at the beginning of my post. Read the instructions again Heather and rehearse the procedure in your head until you are ready.
Hope this makes it more clear for you.

sussexbaker said:

I did Pargyle. I also did a dummy run on an empty hive and I think I might have taken a photo of the floor afterwards. I'll see if I can find it.

Erichalfbee - I knocked something really simple together so that I could treat from under my OMF, I suspect identical to midnight sun's below. Photo here

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Your floor is what I was describing, Sussexbaker. Yours is a bit of a work of art compared to mine though. Mine is just rough ply knocked together. The problem still exists about the gap between the pan and the mesh though. Not really a big problem if you account for this in your 'dose'. I tend to 'wash' off the condensate with a wet paint brush to get rid of it so it doesn't rot the mesh anyway.

sussexbaker said:

I did Pargyle. I also did a dummy run on an empty hive and I think I might have taken a photo of the floor afterwards. I'll see if I can find it.

Erichalfbee - I knocked something really simple together so that I could treat from under my OMF, I suspect identical to midnight sun's below. Photo here

Click to expand...

That's very tidy and I would imagine quite efficient ... thanks for sharing. It sounds from all posts that the powder coated mesh will stand up to the OA so not too worried about it ... it's easily replaced with stainless steel from the mesh company if and when it degrades anyway but I didn't really want the faff of it anytime soon.

Thanks all.

sussexbaker said:

I did Pargyle. I also did a dummy run on an empty hive and I think I might have taken a photo of the floor afterwards. I'll see if I can find it.

Erichalfbee - I knocked something really simple together so that I could treat from under my OMF, I suspect identical to midnight sun's below. Photo here

Click to expand...

Ah....very impressed
I might keep the floor after all

I hope I'm reading your post incorrectly. You seem to be saying that you couple the power up to the Varrox before you place it into the hive.This is a bit dodgy as the Oxalic will be sublimating before you put it into the hive and could be dangerous if it 'spits' out onto your skin. Also you will be losing some of the vapour before you get it into the hive. (I hope you have your mask on as well while you are doing this.)
You are supposed to measure the Oxalic into the 'pan' with the spoon provided, then place it in it's position in the hive. After you have 'sealed' the hive with cloth or similar, then you are supposed to connect the Varrox to your power supply. After 11/2 mins. you disconnect the power (or battery) and then leave it a further 2 mins in the hive if I remember correctly.
After this time you remove it from the hive and 'quench the still hot pan in cold water. (this is so when you do your next 'fill' of the pan there is no residual heat to start the sublimation off prematurely and 'gas' yourself or just lose Oxalic as I described at the beginning of my post. Read the instructions again Heather and rehearse the procedure in your head until you are ready.
Hope this makes it more clear for you.

As taught by Brighton Uni. All of the above was adhered to...powered up, prepared hive, powder on when element hot.. whilst inches from the hive .., straight in to base of hive and seal. I was suited, gloves on and mask in place. No spitting occurred.

Heather said:

I hope I'm reading your post incorrectly. You seem to be saying that you couple the power up to the Varrox before you place it into the hive.This is a bit dodgy as the Oxalic will be sublimating before you put it into the hive and could be dangerous if it 'spits' out onto your skin. Also you will be losing some of the vapour before you get it into the hive. (I hope you have your mask on as well while you are doing this.)
You are supposed to measure the Oxalic into the 'pan' with the spoon provided, then place it in it's position in the hive. After you have 'sealed' the hive with cloth or similar, then you are supposed to connect the Varrox to your power supply. After 11/2 mins. you disconnect the power (or battery) and then leave it a further 2 mins in the hive if I remember correctly.
After this time you remove it from the hive and 'quench the still hot pan in cold water. (this is so when you do your next 'fill' of the pan there is no residual heat to start the sublimation off prematurely and 'gas' yourself or just lose Oxalic as I described at the beginning of my post. Read the instructions again Heather and rehearse the procedure in your head until you are ready.
Hope this makes it more clear for you.

As taught by Brighton Uni. All of the above was adhered to...powered up, prepared hive, powder on when element hot.. whilst inches from the hive .., straight in to base of hive and seal. I was suited, gloves on and mask in place. No spitting occurred.

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I may be mistaken, but the Varrox company instructions are not the same as Brighton Uni's that's for sure. Still what ever you are happy with.

Soon it will be people saying... we decided to leave the open mesh floors fully open when vapourizing with oxalic acid.

Don't forget the matchsticks

Just testing my varrox, (without OA!), e.g. connecting to battery, checking battery is fully charged (with volt meter and amp meter!). Checking I've got all my inspection boards, new metal stainless closure for under OMF treatment, got foam, bucket, tea towels and I'm starting to measure out 3g in foil packets (thanks for the tip!).

For the assault this weekend, to do my hives.

midnight sun said:

I may be mistaken, but the Varrox company instructions are not the same as Brighton Uni's that's for sure. Still what ever you are happy with.

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Yes, followed instructions but as I say minimal drop..

Heather said:

Yes, followed instructions but as I say minimal drop..

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Load the pan with OA. Most people seem to get better results with 2 to 4 grams per hive. I use 2 of the small spoons per hive for simplicity.
Place either under the OMF or in the entrance.
Seal the hive don't forget the OMF if using the entrance.
Connect to power source for around 2 mins.( depends on batter power )
Disconnect from power and leave the hive sealed for around 8 to 10 mins.
Remove vapouriser and quench.

Using 1 tiny spoon of OA did little when i tried it.
The drop difference between 1 spoon and 2 spoons was huge.

Don't waste your time using a varrox when the bees are clustered. It won't work properly.

Isn't the hive more likely to be clustered during a broodless period?