weights & hefting

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prana vallabha

House Bee
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
244
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Location
lampeter (wales)
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
5 national hives , 1 nuc
i am new to hefting being my first year . I would like to know what weight would be good using a luggage scale on the back of the hive ( i have a national brood box no supers ) if anyone could shine a light on this for me .It would be a guide to get average stores for over wintering ...cheers
 
.
Open your own hives and look what is inside.

You cannot take average data from others.
 
Problem is - Your Mileage May Vary.

There is no standard weights for hives. Their construction and materials differ too greatly!

So 'calibrate' what you measure against what you see.

When you inspect, total up the capped and uncapped stores you see. Estimate roughly how full each frame is. For example, an end frame with nothing on the outside, and a well filled but incomplete other side, would score about 45%.
Go through all the frames and total up the %.
A total of 525% would mean you had about 5 and a quarter frames-worth of stores in the hive.
On my personal basis of 2.5kg for a 100% full National deep frame's content, 5.25 frames would be just over 13kg of stores. (You'd hope for 20kg before winter.)

Now if you subtract that 13.125kg from the total weight measured (but see below) that will give an estimate of the weight of stuff that isn't honey (wood, etc) in the hive.
If you do this exercise a few times and average those estimated non-honey weights, you'll get a fair estimate of the weight of that particular empty hive. After that, you can get a good idea of the stores by weighing and subtracting the hive weight.

Doing the weighing.
Attach a simple hook (that your scale can attach to) onto each side of the hive, half way back. Best on the floor, since the brood usually sticks to the floor...
Weigh both sides (you only need to lift it by a fraction of an inch) and then add the two weights together to get the hive's total gross weight.
Weighing from the back alone is not enough.
 
I hope this helps.
We have double brood nationals with 11 frames per box, all the top boxes are full of stores and each of those frames weighed just over 5 pounds.
The frames in the bottom boxes that had stores in also weighed about the same. (these are all capped):)
 
Find a random object that weighs about 15-20 pounds, sling it in a carrier bag. Get used to how much it weighs

Go out to hive, lift either side. If the hive is lighter than the weight you lifted earlier feed some 2:1 syrup (2 kg of sugar to one litre of water)

Feed until bees stop taking feed / hive is too heavy to lift / hive stand collapses / hive falls down mine shaft

If you have a hive made out of balsa / aerogel / depleted uranium / osmium you may need to adjust your random object in the bag and possibly start eating spinach.

HTH
 
In you early years, you check by inspection, time being dependent on ability and confidence.

Later, at the onset of winter (no more stores taken in or down) you heft and get used to the weight of a colony with full winter stores. You remember that for future heftings. Experience is what it is called.

BTW, hefting on one side is OK for the experienced, but may lead to erroneous results, if for instance, the cluster is to one side of the hive. Experience counts every time.
 
In you early years, you check by inspection, time being dependent on ability and confidence.

Later, at the onset of winter (no more stores taken in or down) you heft and get used to the weight of a colony with full winter stores. You remember that for future heftings. Experience is what it is called.

BTW, hefting on one side is OK for the experienced, but may lead to erroneous results, if for instance, the cluster is to one side of the hive. Experience counts every time.

:iagree:Regular inspections as the bees and the weather change into Autumn mode
 
.
When you are learning the basics of beekeeping, you MUST look inside the hive, before you rush to internet what others are doing.

When I started weighing hives, I looked inside the hive, how full are combs and do they have still brood.

When I feed one box hive, 10 Lang frames, I never weight it. I feed it full. So bees cap the cells.

Douple box hives I weight because some hives have too few stores and some store too much. But I know the weight variation of my hives. I need not ask from anybony and the answer is invaluable to me.

If I feed too much I am in trouble in Spring, what to do with extra sugar and new honey starts come in.

When you prepare your hive to winterfeeding, you MUST LOOK INSIDE or you never learn.

- amount of brood
- pollen frames
- food stores
- empty combs

- how much bees occupye the frames and the hive. Should I restrict the wintering space?
- presency of normal queen .....larvae, brood...


" I have not opened brood for years", wrote one guy........I wonder why? What is so difficult?
Too angry bees?

To read some basic beekeeping book is valuable. Some books are easy to understand and some are not.

At same time with feeding, give the mite treatment.

.
 
Problem is - Your Mileage May Vary.

There is no standard weights for hives. Their construction and materials differ too greatly!

So 'calibrate' what you measure against what you see.

Calibrate - thanks ITMA. Great help.
 
So 'calibrate' what you measure against what you see.

When you inspect, total up the capped and uncapped stores you see. Estimate roughly how full each frame is. For example, an end frame with nothing on the outside, and a well filled but incomplete other side, would score about 45%.
Go through all the frames and total up the %.
A total of 525% would mean you had about 5 and a quarter frames-worth of stores in the hive.
On my personal basis of 2.5kg for a 100% full National deep frame's content, 5.25 frames would be just over 13kg of stores. (You'd hope for 20kg before winter.)

Now if you subtract that 13.125kg from the total weight measured (but see below) that will give an estimate of the weight of stuff that isn't honey (wood, etc) in the hive.
If you do this exercise a few times and average those estimated non-honey weights, you'll get a fair estimate of the weight of that particular empty hive. After that, you can get a good idea of the stores by weighing and subtracting the hive weight.

Doing the weighing.
Attach a simple hook (that your scale can attach to) onto each side of the hive, half way back. Best on the floor, since the brood usually sticks to the floor...
Weigh both sides (you only need to lift it by a fraction of an inch) and then add the two weights together to get the hive's total gross weight.
Weighing from the back alone is not enough.
:iagree:

I tried weighing a couple of hives periodically last winter. The floor had 25/30 ml screws in each side rail. Two screws about 10mm apart to spread the weight a little but give a consistent point to attach the hook of the scales to. Concentrate on making the measurements reproducible and compare with your starting position when you saw the stores and were able to count the frames. Which side the stores are that they work can vary over the months which is why you need to measure from both sides.

What I found with a digital scale was that the automatic hold look too long and was hard to hold steady. it was easier to lift for a second and hit the tare button. When the scale was removed it had the negative of the weight recorded. It was fairly easily reproducible and recorded to tenths of a Kg. There is a commercial product available that uses a lever to lift, it gives more control and allows you to see the readout while lifting; might be worth improvising something similar.

What I recorded was a steady reduction in hive weight until I saw one make a rapid reduction as brooding started up before much input. I was able to put fondant on where and when it was needed. More experience may have allowed 'hefting' to detect the rapid reduction but having the numbers on the page gives a lot more certainty. Assessing differences of a couple of kilograms at monthly intervals also gives a lot of assurance that all is as expected.
 

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