Rose Hive plans

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I have been contacted by a dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

Are there any plans available for the Rose hive ?
 
190mm deep National size 46cmx46cm box but with 12mm sides so you can easily get 12 hoffmans in

Thornes do a version but that has large chunky molded frame ledge sides of pine thick planks plus thin12mm ply sides,
 
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Plans

I have been contacted by a dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

Are there any plans available for the Rose hive ?

Hi Admin
Dave Cushman's site talks about rose hives. From what he says use national brood box plans with 190 mm deep boxes. He says all National and Commercial parts fit. Not sure about frames though!!!
 
... Not sure about frames though!!!

Beat me to it - the hive itself is only half the story!

No reason why the method shouldn't be applied with a conveniently available, similar-sized box (and frames) Dadant super, perhaps?
 
The picture show the standard Rowe OSB plank end (retreived from a pile to be burnt), This is the patent end designed by Mr Rowe and sold by £hornes

I have noticed that the problem with assembling of the Rowe patent OSB is shrinkage of the Plank end

I also add a picture of one the difference between one plank side stored inside dry (ready to burn) and one store outside in the rain

But as ITMA says it is a "way of Beekeeping" and really which box you use is irrelevant

The OSB Rose plank end box experiment I was helping with has been ababonded ( we burnt a lots of the frames yesterday. We discuss the possiblity of making 190mm deep National the same size a OSB but it was expensive and Yorkshire Beehives who said they could make them closed ( The beekeeper is now standardising on Commercials including a commercial WBC in his garden),
 
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I have been contacted by a Dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

If I understand correctly, the key issue with the Rose hive is not the hive design per se but the beekeeping system that you use. One could really do the Rose hive system with any hive's bodies. Still, it may be an idea to maintain roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive does.

As far as I can tell, these foundation sizes should be accurate:

Rose:
335 mm x 160 mm = 0.107 m2 per frame
12 frames = 1.29 m2 per box

Dutch Simplex (honey frame):
350 mm x 140 mm = 0.098 m2 per frame
10 frames = 0.98 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper should try to use the Rose method using Dutch simplex honey boxes, it would be like using Rose hives with 9 frames instead of 12. In my opinion this would be the best option, even though the box is almost a quarter of the size smaller.

Dutch Simplex (brood frame):
350 mm x 220 mm = 0.154 m2 per frame
10 frames = 1.54 m2 per box
9 frames = 1.37 m2 per box
8 frames = 1.23 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper wants to use a box that has roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive, then he could use Dutch simplex brood boxes and simply use 8 frames instead of 10. However, this will mean that the boxes are "taller" and "narrower" than the Rose system, and I'm not sure how that would affect the Rose system's intended regular and rapid expansion of the brood nest.

The reason why the Dutch simplex has so much less foundation for roughly the same box dimensions is because the frames have longer ears (4 cm on either side).

Samuel
 
If I understand correctly, the key issue with the Rose hive is not the hive design per se but the beekeeping system that you use. One could really do the Rose hive system with any hive's bodies. Still, it may be an idea to maintain roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive does.

As far as I can tell, these foundation sizes should be accurate:

Rose:
335 mm x 160 mm = 0.107 m2 per frame
12 frames = 1.29 m2 per box

Dutch Simplex (honey frame):
350 mm x 140 mm = 0.098 m2 per frame
10 frames = 0.98 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper should try to use the Rose method using Dutch simplex honey boxes, it would be like using Rose hives with 9 frames instead of 12. In my opinion this would be the best option, even though the box is almost a quarter of the size smaller.

Dutch Simplex (brood frame):
350 mm x 220 mm = 0.154 m2 per frame
10 frames = 1.54 m2 per box
9 frames = 1.37 m2 per box
8 frames = 1.23 m2 per box

So, if the Dutch beekeeper wants to use a box that has roughly the same foundation size per box as the Rose hive, then he could use Dutch simplex brood boxes and simply use 8 frames instead of 10. However, this will mean that the boxes are "taller" and "narrower" than the Rose system, and I'm not sure how that would affect the Rose system's intended regular and rapid expansion of the brood nest.

The reason why the Dutch simplex has so much less foundation for roughly the same box dimensions is because the frames have longer ears (4 cm on either side).

Samuel

The Dutch simplex boxes are the same volume and use the same size frame as the British standard Nationals (long lug frams we call them rather than long ears, Brtish Slang for Ears is lug hole) However whereas the British Nationals and Rose boxes are bottom bee space, the Dutch Simplex boxes are top Bee Space

As the Rose system does not use a Queen Excluder, I doubt it would matter the height of each individual box or it volume as the queen occupies were she wishes in the stack of boxes , the advantage of the Rose is the stanardisation of frame size through the hive stack and boxes of managable weight when full of Honey (15-18kg)

The OSB Rose, Simplex and National are all 46cm square external if you go simplex chose either a brood or honey super and standardise on that throughtout the hive stack and run it with max number of frames per box, A hive of 6 x rose oSB would have almost the same internal volume as a hive of 5x Simplex/National Brood boxes or 8 x Honey supers if you take into account the unusalable between box bee space, to get it more exact as the rose can take 12 frames due to 12mm sides you could run at 33mm Hoffman spacing rather than 35mm for shaving 2mm off the hoffman frames but is that worth it as you can use dummy boards?

some of the beekeepers on here and American beekepers use one size boxes , normally brood boxes , it just the weight that is the problem when full of honey

WE found we could not extract rose frames (190mm) in a 9 frame radial extractor and had to purchase tangential screens for the extractor, they take Brood frames ,Rose and Commercial
 
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The Dutch simplex boxes are the same volume and use the same size frame as the British standard Nationals (long lug frams we call them rather than long ears, Brtish Slang for Ears is lug hole) However whereas the British Nationals and Rose boxes are bottom bee space, the Dutch Simplex boxes are top Bee Space

As the Rose system does not use a Queen Excluder, I doubt it would matter the height of each individual box or it volume as the queen occupies were she wishes in the stack of boxes , the advantage of the Rose is the stanardisation of frame size through the hive stack and boxes of managable weight when full of Honey (15-18kg)

The OSB Rose, Simplex and National are all 46cm square external if you go simplex chose either a brood or honey super and standardise on that throughtout the hive stack and run it with max number of frames per box, A hive of 6 x rose oSB would have almost the same internal volume as a hive of 5x Simplex/National Brood boxes or 8 x Honey supers if you take into account the unusalable between box bee space, to get it more exact as the rose can take 12 frames due to 12mm sides you could run at 33mm Hoffman spacing rather than 35mm for shaving 2mm off the hoffman frames but is that worth it as you can use dummy boards?

some of the beekeepers on here and American beekepers use one size boxes , normally brood boxes , it just the weight that is the problem when full of honey

WE found we could not extract rose frames (190mm) in a 9 frame radial extractor and had to purchase tangential screens for the extractor, they take Brood frames ,Rose and Commercial

meant to say "very similar" rather than "same"

also added simplex when not wanted, sorry!!!
 
if langstroths are readily avaiable I suggest that you search for the Farrar method and uses langstroth mediums, or even looks for those beekeeping videos from the Germans that cover what they call rotational beekeeping

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93YM3dDWpos"]rotating_system_1_4.AVI - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJEnrwtJZtw"]rotating_system_2_4.AVI - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2l8FiVdqWA"]rotating_system_3_4.AVI - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLAg7bbTsf4"]rotating_system_4_4.AVI - YouTube[/ame]
 
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If Langstroths are readily avaiable I suggest that you search for the Farrar method and uses Langstroth mediums, or even looks for those beekeeping videos from the Germans that cover what they call rotational beekeeping...

As far as I can tell, the only thing that the Farrar method, the Rose method and the Celler method (the "German rotational method") have in common, is the fact that they use one size box.

The main idea of the Celler method is to renew comb annually. If you don't want to watch the videos and you're happy with Google Translate, you can read up on the Cellar method here and here. It results in somewhat less honey but much stronger hives.

The main idea of the Farrar method and the Rose method is to increase the brood body as much as possible before the main honey gathering season starts. The Farrar method does it by using two queens in one hive. The Rose method does it by continually expanding the size of the brood nest, using one queen. The Farrar method involves a bit of rotation as well, if I understand correctly. The Rose method has no rotation involved (except at year-end).

I think the essence of the Rose method is described in the PDF slide show that explains the Rose method, and you can use any size frame and box.
 
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Would like to see her work my bees dressed like that.not worthy
 
Would like to see her work my bees dressed like that.not worthy

Not all the time, but for most of this season, that is how we worked on the bees... and it is nice to be able to when the weather is really hot.
 
I have been contacted by a dutch member who wants to make himself a Rose hive.

Are there any plans available for the Rose hive ?

The easiest answer for him is probably to buy the book (The Rose Hive Method) and see how Tim reduced the normal National box using timber and plywood. (As for me - I wouldn't use plywood.)

Kitta
 
Not all the time, but for most of this season, that is how we worked on the bees... and it is nice to be able to when the weather is really hot.

A little over dressed for the high pressure in July, t shirt, shorts and sandals was the order of the day once the sun got up.
Lets hope we get a string of good summers now, I think we're due some and these things are usually cyclical with a bunch of seasons following a loose pattern.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSPqiPgYq08"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSPqiPgYq08[/ame]
 
Hi,

I think the url links to these videos have moved.
So far I found the first of 4.

Rotating_system_1_4 on You Tube


Will hunt for more......
And increase my post-count. As a new member, I can't post links yet.


videos from the Germans that cover what they call rotational beekeeping
 

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