Fibreglass roof

jigsaw said:

I would make up a mould 5mm larger all round than the roof size and about 40mm deep...

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All it needs is waterproofing so unless its for mass production for a particular manufacturers 'standard' roof a mould is unnecessary. Mask up with resin proof tape a couple of inches down the sides, apply a layer of layup resin, followed by a couple of layers of 300gsm (1 oz) CSM well wetted out, let it go off for a couple of hours and then apply a final topcoat of wax inhibited gelcoat (called topcoat by some) so that the final surface isn't tacky.

I'm not aware of bees sensitivity to styrene (the source of the 'fibreglass smell' ) although it might explain why some of my bees misbehave but one thing for sure the smell won't simply disappear after 2 months... choose a hot day, stick your head into the passenger compartment of a car with a fibreglass body, they still smell of styrene for 10 years or more after they left the mould despite low styrene resins and vacuum moulding techniques that permit a very low resin fraction such that they resemble chalk dust internally. Of course you could always use epoxy rather than polyester resin to avoid any smell issues, but that costs a damn sight more.

Brosville said:

I've professionally costed medium sized wind installations and can assure you that they really do pay!

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Price in the cost of conventionally fuelled or nuclear backup for the wind turbine that generates for roughly 20% of the year and fails completely to generate when there is a blocking high such as existed from January to May this year, and you'll find that wind turbines are indirectly the most polluting form of energy on the planet. Take away the obscene subsidies, make them pay for the 100% reserve and wind turbines would be consigned to history. They are about as much use as the plastic ones stuck to a cane plonked on a sandcastle on the beach.

Brosville said:

Stiffy, hate to tell you, but I've worked within the renewables industry for some years, and presently run a renewables forum - I've professionally costed medium sized wind installations and can assure you that they really do pay!

-wind works, wind pays, the nonsense about bird slaughter is just that, utter rubbish - far more die from the causes I've already mentioned
I'd suggest you read up the real experts on the subject (Paul Gipe would be a good start point)............

There have been reports as to damage being done to bats, but it would again appear to be a matter of poor siting of turbines, not that they are particularly any more dangerous than many things we accept as "normal"....

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I think you have said it all in the statement that you have worked with the companies involved?
I have read both sides and am still open to the facts which will come out in the end good or bad but as I posted the facts so far dispute what the powerful and monied lobby would have you believe.
A recent study of a starling population near a wind farm has discovered that the population is falling through collisions with turbine blades by 3% a year = to 60000 birds from the 2 million birds that try to use the site to over winter. This is one of the many facts not rubbish as you state.

I sit on the fence on this but as far as birds injured by turbines compared to all wildlife in the sea after an oil spill I would think the turbine wins hands down, did'nt this thread start on GRP roofs!!!

beebreeder said:

I sit on the fence on this but as far as birds injured by turbines compared to all wildlife in the sea after an oil spill I would think the turbine wins hands down, did'nt this thread start on GRP roofs!!!

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Now where does the raw materials come from to make the resin to use with fibre glass?

Let us take as an example a small factory that chose to offset it's power consumption by using wind power (replacing the stuff that comes out of the grid) - we costed 2x250kw turbines for them - if they bought refurbished turbines, at the most conservative estimates, they would have complete payback in under 5 years, if they'd used new turbines, 7 years - they had a design life of a minimum of 25 years, so after the initial "payback"period they would effectively give a couple of decades of essentially "free" power.
All of this was with no tax breaks, no subsidies, and no grants taken into consideration- these are the sort of figures that make "money men" drool....
They ARE a good financial investment, they are remarkably "green" (they pay back the embodied energy very fast), do not pollute while in use, and can be dismantled and recycled at the end of their lives.
There is a great deal of Exxon-funded guff put out trying to discredit wind, as I said, if you don't believe anything else, look at an arch capitalist like Warren Buffet putting gazillions of his own funds into wind - because it pays.....
Most of Europe would kill to have the UKs wind resources, yet they are spending a great deal on wind (because it works), and we are dragging our feet aided by gross nimbyism and disinformation

Let me guess......oil.....perhaps they could make the props ect from wood.

Stiffy, you should know by now that I'm sufficient of an iconoclast not to toe any company line, and when we started the company it was on a very independent basis - we advised clients (be they householders or businesses) the best balance of renewable technologies for them, costed them, and sourced and fitted as appropriate (rather than having a few company's products "on the shelf").
Far from "swallowing" anyone's hype, we looked very critically at all technologies, and as a result of one project for a London school where an "expert" had advised roof-mounted turbines, we investigated the claims which we'd been suspicious about, consulted the leading experts in the field, and came to the conclusion that they were a heartless con.......... I was the bloke who reported Swindlesave to trading standards for making false claims........
As a result of a similar sceptical eye, I have grave doubts as to the green credentials of most heat pumps for instance, BUT, wind works, pays, is remarkably "green", and all the people I know with "domestic" size turbines do NOT find problems (many of them are pretty "deep green" and would be mortified if they were killing wildlife)

Just as well we have the recession as the mythical factory would only operate for 20% of the time. A few years since I've been down that way but there was one next to the M25 going west not far from the M1 at the bottom of a valley that always used to be stationary, and someone sent me some pics once of a few turbines perched just above the roofline somewhere on the North Circular iirc to satisfy some planning edict. The numerous turbines on a few sites on the Pennines rarely seem to be working, too little wind or too much but no one gives a stuff when they are banking the subsidy. It's as bent as the solar farms in Spain that generate at 3am in the morning.

As for no pollution, it's quieter living a big city a few miles from a major airport than being in a village next to a bloody wind farm occasionally going thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum thrum

You really have swallowed the whole package of nonsense put out by the anti-wind brigade- lets deal with them one by one -
Firstly, intermittancy - yes we know about that, the wind doesn't blow all the time (the sums are done taking that into account) - what we have to do is find a way to use that intermittent (and essentially "free" and very green) energy - there's three usual ways of doing it - do it the old-fashioned windmill way - save the work until the wind blows then work like mad till it stops (this does have a few practical problems attached), so the favourite ways are to "grid tie" - essentially use the grid as your battery - when you're generating you're either using the power, and/or the excess is "exported" into the grid where it'll displace power that would have probably been generated by fossil fuels - when the wind isn't blowing, you use normal grid power- there's essentially two meters - one in, one out, at the end of the period, sums are done and payments made in either direction. The third way is to store the power onsite (which usually means batteries, which unfortunately are pretty pricey)
As for "noise", I've seen inappropriately sited turbines far too close to housing - that's not the fault of the technology, just bad planning - generally the noise emitted from turbines is not troublesome IF common sense is applied in their siting - and I would contend that they are considerably "friendlier" to have on one's doorstep than many of the alternatives.

Whilst all of this power discussion is no doubt very interesting if totally flawed.

After 28 years of offshore experience I know where the natural power is and it is NOT wind but waves.

Can we return to what this thread is about which is the pros and cons of fiberglass roofs.

Especially I am interested in the peoples views who are saying no to the idea in case I am missing something very important which would make the idea non viable.

Start an off topic thread Bros if you are that keen on wind.

PH

it's all yours- I've said my piece on "wind", and it's plain that any more is just pouring petrol on the Delingpolian fire of loathing by the "anti" lobby

I use primarily wooden nationals, and the odd dadant. My vote was a no, because in terms of fabrication, metal is a lot quicker easier and cleaner to form, especially in low volume. If I was going to do a run of maybe more than 20 or 30 roofs then I might look at it.
In use, I don't see any benefits, although weight may come into it. There are two sides to that. I don't think the insulation properties would be as good as wood, or polystyrene.
At end of life, metal can be recycled, wood burnt on a fire. What do you do with GRP?

Roche

I am not planning on fabbing myself I have met in with a firm of experts. The price point discussed so far is highly attractive.

My plan is for a deep roof to accommodate a poly slab to give the all important winter warmth and to get away from roofs being sucked off by wind.

I understood that GRP can be shredded for insulation but I may be mistaken on that.

PH

Will this not just ad another level of confusion when it comes to hives in this country.

It is an interesting concept and perhaps worth investigation but in my limited experience grp can degrade its not bullet proof and to make it really strong requires ribs.

One final point PH if you are considering this road perhaps you will be limiting yourself to one manufacture and if that relation ship fails others can and probably will make them for you but perhaps not the same price.

This is the final point in general in this country the vast majority of the population are becoming more environmentally concerned and are looking to products that reflect that and a grp roof although it will have many advantages may work against it.

Not sure why a deep roof adds confusion? I have never understood why shallow roofs are sold as deep roofs used to be common. The whole point of a deep roof is it adds considerable protection to a single brood box in winter.

I quickly checked up on the recycling of GRP this morning and it is possible to do so therefore I am satisfied on that count.

PH

I think the confusion will be the new material throwen into the mix not the fact that it is deep.

what clearance do you propose around the BB and do you have a thickness in mined for the roof sides.

Ah now... that is private.

PH

We used to make canoes out of GRP in "woodworking" at school. I hated them. The smell and the itching (we threw it at each other). Mind you they never leaked.

What about when I dump my nice big stone on top - will it crack?

Industrial espionage perhaps you have said to much now who knows who is looking.

No its just that as you are thinking of 8” roof the gap may be important.
If you imaging the gap will allow you to tip the roof at a slight angle when placing on the hive and lifting off the hive its amazing but at a certain angle and the roof will stick and wedge it self. Easily rectified but how annoying when you have to do it most of the time.

Good look

Why would you want a big stone on top of a roof that wont be able to be sucked off? Grins.

I use bricks as an immediate status indicator. And the record card on the CB for more detailed info.

But that is how I work and I know some love their highly complex systems. LOL

PH