Keeping Buckfasts pure

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Fixitphil

New Bee
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Location
North Yorkshire
Hive Type
14x12
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As a new beekeeper and having only 2 hives of Buckfasts how can I increase
my hives and still maintain them as pure Buckfasts?
I live in North Yorkshire and wondered if there are any like minded Buckfast keepers who have a solution.
 
Instrumental insemination or move to a remote island
...with 50 colonies. The Buckfast was a careful cross and blend of subspecies. Most sold as such now are not pure.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
 
As a new beekeeper and having only 2 hives of Buckfasts how can I increase
my hives and still maintain them as pure Buckfasts?
I live in North Yorkshire and wondered if there are any like minded Buckfast keepers who have a solution.

The only answer really is to buy mated queens from suppliers who have good reputation and use isolated mating stations (so the genetics of both drones & queen are known & controlled). These tend to be abroad e.g. Denmark/Northern Germany, but I believe the Dartmoor mating station used by Brother Adam is being reinstated, although the weather won't have helped with getting queens mated. I think the breeder queens may have come from Norton on here, but apologies if I have got that wrong :blush5:
 
is that an oxymoron ?

YES!!! I help out at Buckfast Community Apiary every week - and there is NO SUCH THING as 'pure Buckfast'. Brother Adam was always 'playing' and never satisfied with what he had!! A pure Buckfast does NOT EXIST - and can never exist! The bees used to breed Buckfast's when Brother Adam was alive are dead - so how can you now have a pure Buckfast bee?
 
As a new beekeeper and having only 2 hives of Buckfasts how can I increase
my hives and still maintain them as pure Buckfasts?
I live in North Yorkshire and wondered if there are any like minded Buckfast keepers who have a solution.

Instrumental insemination or isolated mating as has already been suggested,or send your mating nucs to established isolated mating stations,there are a great many of them,aternatively buy queens from a good breeder,there are many of them as well,some who BA trusted in europe and made sure that they had his genetic material before his demise,and the consequent starving of 450 mating hives of bees by a bunch of clowns..here is a list of some of the breeders if you have not seen it before.

http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/index.html
 
Last edited:
Keeping Buckfasts

Thanks, Very helpfull.
I am aware that buying reputable queens will be the only sure way to keep a good quality Buckfast. At present if let queens get mated locally only 10% of the drones at best would be Buckfast, even increasing this to 50% would be an improvement.
I would like to edge my bets on home reared queens and would like to be able to find other local Buckfast keepers with a view to getting together few hives.
 
mbc;257777[B said:
]is that an oxymoron ?
[/B]

I would imagine so



and as for the isolated Dartmoor apiary, may bee isolated in the last century but definitely not now!!!

there are "other & foreign honey bee colonies" well within a drones flight of it.....

if you want a "pure" strain of bee I suggest you would nee to move...
 
Or have a play with moon light mating.
which is about 95% from my reading if I remember right.
although called moon light it is control late afternoon mating.(evening)
 
brother Adam traveled the world looking for different breeds of bees to create his Buckfast, unfortunately the world has changed and the bees within it as he mentioned in one of his books
 
Or have a play with moon light mating.
which is about 95% from my reading if I remember right.
although called moon light it is control late afternoon mating.(evening)

Sounds interesting... could you enlarge on that?

.
 
Sounds interesting... could you enlarge on that?

.

There is a bit about it in the link below.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2681&page=6

Also here.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...t-owning-an-island-mondscheinbegattung-method




Translated and sent by a friend of mine.


I also came across someone with a less refined variation of this method in Australia who used it to breed US Buckfast bees.

My guess is that it's the bringing out virgins from a few days in a cool place to a warm place that's the key. Maybe it simulates a bad weather week, with a fine patch of weather?

Maybe being released later in the day might mean they don't fly as far as well?



"Moonlight mating.

While their pals take to the drone congregation areas, the drones of the ten colonies selected by Joe Horner are banned from flying.
A barrier fence along the floor boards preventing them from flying out.

The mating apiary of the Australian breeder is surrounded by forests, in which numerous colonies thrive thanks to the lack of varroa.

However Horner wants the 2000 Queens he raises a year to be mated from its only breeding colonies of the drones.
For this Instrumental Insemination is too expensive.
He uses the Koehler Method (see P. 30-31) in refined form, (his setup allows up to 240 queens to be control mated on a single day.)

One system, many names.

Over time, his operation has become known within Australia, as the Horner System.

In Germany this method is mainly in use by keepers of the dark bee, who use it as a way to keep pure the native bee when surrounded by Carnica.
Here the name used is a playful "Moonlight mating station”, even if it's not likely to be a romantic rendezvous for the bees.

Whether called the Koehler Method, Horner's System or Moonlight mating station - the method has significant advantages over Instrumental Insemination aside from the financial one.

Other advantage: In the natural mating must each drone at the meeting place compete against its competitors.
This is a natural selection amongst the drones, since usually only the fittest males have a chance with the queen.

Horner encourages the prolific production of drones in his selected colonies by introducing drone combs into these colonies 40 days prior to a planned mating.

Prior to mating, selected drone pupae from 3 drone mother (DM) colonies are transferred to a single drone source (DS) colony to mature. The DS colonies are furnished with a queen excluder, which allows workers (but not drones) to have constant passage from the hive.
Horner uses 10 such DS colonies with males from a total of 30 DM colonies for each controlled mating.

Queen cells are introduced to standard 4-way mating nucs (i.e., the hive box is divided 4 ways, with entrances facing in 4 directions). Each virgin is confined to her mating nuc by a queen excluder. Two days prior to the virgins’ mating flight, the colonies are placed in a darkened shed at 13–15 °C.

The mating nucs are on several trolleys that slide on rails, so they can easily be pushed by one operator from the cold room out into the open.

The day before the nuptial flight, he brings the mating nucs out for two hours in the late afternoon, so that the queens can perform their orientation flights.

The next day the Horner waits until after the time of natural flights which is usually between noon and 17 clock.

To be on the safe side Horner determines the precise time of queen and drone release using a control hive.
Horner observes the flight of drones from this hive and waits 30 min after drones are no longer seen exiting the hive before releasing his virgins and drones (ca. 1800 h).
To release the virgins he brings out the mating nucs to the same position they had been the day before and opens the entrance.

Now the bees can go about their businesses, including nuptial flight in the remaining hours of the day.

To increase operator efficiency and the accurate positioning of mating nucs, there are 6 rail tracks that run out of the shed into the mating apairy.

There are 10 hives on each track, connected by chains. When the hives are pushed out of the shed, each one ends up precisely positioned. Individual mating nucs are marked with conspicuous colours and patterns, and the apiary itself has large orientation cues provided.

Horner is very satisfied with his system, which has a mating success rate of 60-80%.

But scientists at the University of Sydney wanted to know how safe this procedure really is. Twice they took paternity tests with randomly selected colonies whose queens were inseminated on Horner's mating station.

The researchers demonstrated that the procedure provides a safety margin of around 85%.
This means that in 85% of pairings, the drones were from Horner's mating station.

Normally, only 15-25% of drones mate with queens from the same apiary if they are not geographically isolated – other drones also come to the congregation area from their colonies up to 15 km away.

Colour Test

Horner has a simple method of monitoring incorrect matings. His bees
are fairly uniformly coloured.

Colonies with have workers of a different colour have the highest probability that the queen
probably also mated with foreign drones.

The results show that a consistent implementation of Kohler Method can increase the safety of natural matings clearly, without a isolated state being necessary.

Otherwise one must accept the disadvantages of Instrumental Insemination in cost.

This method however doesn't obtain 100% security in mating.

The results of the investigation were in the Journal of Heredity 101 (3)."
 
Really interesting, thanks Hivemaker.
:iagree:

Shows what can be done when the weather is reliable. That's a lot of investment in temperature control, railed mating hives and several hundred hives running to a strict timetable. 2000 mated queens a year, batches of 240. With rejects that must allow for a dozen mating cycles? How do you build up to such a system when it's only going to worthwhile if you start with 30 drone raising hives?

Impressive but I guess any outfit set up to produce 2000 controlled mating queens a year will have elements outside most of our experience.
 
The researchers demonstrated that the procedure provides a safety margin of around 85%.
This means that in 85% of pairings, the drones were from Horner's mating station.

Normally, only 15-25% of drones mate with queens from the same apiary if they are not geographically isolated – other drones also come to the congregation area from their colonies up to 15 km away.

QUOTE]

I would think this 15-25% figure would be much higher for native bees, its a shame there's no published data (that I could find)more relevant to the situation in Britain
 
[/B]

I would imagine so



and as for the isolated Dartmoor apiary, may bee isolated in the last century but definitely not now!!!

there are "other & foreign honey bee colonies" well within a drones flight of it.....

if you want a "pure" strain of bee I suggest you would need to move...

Normally, only 15-25% of drones mate with queens from the same apiary if they are not geographically isolated – other drones also come to the congregation area from their colonies up to 15 km away.

most interesting post... may explain why the odd colony of Cornish black bees are appearing in the city of Plymouth... isolated Rame may not bee so isolated... Dartmoor definitely not !
 
Really interesting, thanks Hivemaker.

:iagree:

While the method in its full glory would only be applicable to a very large producer, it's possible elements of it could be done on a smaller scale. The key question would seem to be- could the virgins and drones be persuaded to fly late simply by being kept in, either by closing the hive or using a QE: or is the temperature crucial to confuse their sense of the time of day?
 
:iagree:

While the method in its full glory would only be applicable to a very large producer, it's possible elements of it could be done on a smaller scale. The key question would seem to be- could the virgins and drones be persuaded to fly late simply by being kept in, either by closing the hive or using a QE: or is the temperature crucial to confuse their sense of the time of day?

Yes
 
Thanks, Very helpfull.
I am aware that buying reputable queens will be the only sure way to keep a good quality Buckfast. At present if let queens get mated locally only 10% of the drones at best would be Buckfast, even increasing this to 50% would be an improvement.
I would like to edge my bets on home reared queens and would like to be able to find other local Buckfast keepers with a view to getting together few hives.

I recently found this great piece of info from Finman on drone congregation areas: http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16838

It shows how hard it is to control where the sperm comes from.
 

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